Irish Ferries Enthusiasts | Forum

X

Welcome to the Irish Ferries Enthusiasts forum.


Stena Line fleet movements(Read 1178834 times)
Re: Stena Line fleet movements Reply #1290 on: February 22, 2014, 02:40:48 PM
Hhhhmmmm , thinking about it , Stena Nordica would be a good fit for Rosslare - Fishguard without alteration if Stena Carsima were providing the increased passenger capacity during the summer months.



Re: Stena Line fleet movements Reply #1291 on: February 22, 2014, 03:10:50 PM
Does the Stena Carisma need specific infrastructure requirements and would Stena really consider operating a summer fast ferry service at Fishguard again?
As for converting the Stena Explorer to LNG, I'm not sure... If they were REALLY serious about it, they would've converted the Discovery and Voyager when they had the chance. 

Well that's true the Nordica seemed to do okay at Fishguard and Rosslare, but I was really thinking of her internal accommodation, which would have to be improved.
Martin



Re: Stena Line fleet movements Reply #1292 on: February 22, 2014, 06:11:23 PM
Hhhhmmmm , thinking about it , Stena Nordica would be a good fit for Rosslare - Fishguard without alteration if Stena Carsima were providing the increased passenger capacity during the summer months.
AFAIK there is also scope within Nordica's design for future expansion of her accommodation - I will see if I can find out any more though these things can be quite difficult to find out unless in the industry as I have discovered when researching for my website!  Given Stena's track record and the fact they don't take on tonnage that cant be altered (the whole Stenability thing) I'm sure alterations could be made to make her even more suitable.  If anything though in some ways she may be too big due to her freight capacity with on excess of 1900 lane metres compare to Europe's 1223.

Regarding Carisma she does need her own infrastructure and crazily IMHO it is different to that used by Explorer.
Steve in Belfast (suburbia)

NI Ferry Site

Flickr: www.flickr.com/tarbyonline



Re: Stena Line fleet movements Reply #1293 on: February 22, 2014, 06:13:40 PM

(Swift runs at about 180t/24h apparently)

Pete

But remember the Swift doesn't run 24 hours a day, she only operates about 8 hours per day, so that would work out at approx 60T/per day if your figures are correct.



Re: Stena Line fleet movements Reply #1294 on: February 22, 2014, 08:24:56 PM
I think all the figures are based on how much fuel they would burn if they were running 24 hours.  Explorer only runs 5 hours per day so her consumption is a percentage of what she would use in 24 hours etc.  I think what the figures show is, relatively speaking, how much more expensive Explorer is to run versus Carisma versus Swift or Lynx.  Explorer carries twice the number of passengers that Lynx did so that has to be factored in.  Sums are very complicated!

Yes, Carisma needs her own linkspans which doesn't help her saleability!  Back when Stena had a full office here I spoke with an engineer who was being asked to examine the viability of the switch and his view was that with relatively modest investment, the Dun Laoghaire and Holyhead linkspans could be altered to accomodate Carisma.  Biggest problem is apparently not the ramps, but the locking mechanism which docks a HSS, which is very different to that of a conventional ship or even most fastcraft.  The other option at Dun Laoghaire is to alter Berth 5 (the old Lynx berth) with a half linkspan which would slow down loading/unloading (it would be a one way operation) but would be much cheaper. 

I think the LPG conversion was a bit tongue in cheek but the technology has changed dramatically in recent years (even since Discovery was withdrawn).  Didn't incat just sell a duel fuel cat recently? That one managed 58knots too which would be quite the sales pitch on the Irish sea! Other solution for DL-Holyhead is of course to lease one of the 98m+ fastcraft that are knocking about and build a new brand to replace the HSS one which remember is valuable to Stena in terms of Market Share on the Irish Sea. 



Re: Stena Line fleet movements Reply #1295 on: February 22, 2014, 08:42:48 PM
Anyone know why the Clipper Pennant is in Gothenburg at one of the Stena berths?
Martin



Re: Stena Line fleet movements Reply #1296 on: February 22, 2014, 09:45:44 PM
There are numerous Incat 98m fastcats from the mid to late 90's for sale for under 5 million Euro , some similar to Stena Lynx III are for sale for under 3 million Euro.



Re: Stena Line fleet movements Reply #1297 on: February 22, 2014, 09:55:02 PM
Clipper Pennant is getting ready to provide relief cover as the Stena Scandinavica is off for a refit in Gdansk at the end of next week, Stena have had the Clipper Pennant sub chartered to a wind farm construction company in the area and one would assume it is doing berthing trials before it and the Ask take up the slack with the Stena Scandinavica away on holidays !

At the moment as things stand the Dieppe Seaways is heading for Dublin and the HSS Stena Explorer while confirmed for 2014 is unlikely to reappear after the summer season if they are going to the trouble of converting a Superfast to run alongside the Adventurer, the Dieppe will require a megabucks rebuild to bring it up to the Stena concept and make the on board configuration work for the route.

The Nordica is all but confirmed for Rosslare in 2015 as well, however the passenger capacity could prove quite limiting during the summer season and at peak travel times, for instance during peak periods when there are 700/800 passengers on board, only half will be able to travel, how many passenger would have been left behind this Christmas as the Oscar Wilde sailings were cancelled and the Europe sailed at near capacity ? However the Nordica could easily be rebuilt offer extra capacity bit this is unlikely to happen. More likely is a change is sailing frequency of bookings are good, they could always move to three return crossings per day, as mentioned many many years ago when the current then nearly new Stena Jutlandica was rumored to be heading to Rosslare.

The HSS900 Stena Carisma is coming nowhere near the Irish Sea and will be sold or scrapped, the same fate will await the Stena Explorer after the summer season as it will be due an expensive drydocking this December and they wont be wasting money, that is unless the price of fuel drops and the HSS sails full all summer long and makes a business case for itself, one thing is for certain is the HSS1500 is going to be the last fastcraft for Stena for a long long time (imagine where they would be if they hadn't taken the HSS route and invested the money in tradtional ferries.)

Of course if Stena RoRo get a good offer for the Dieppe Seaways then it will be chartered out and something else will occur for Dublin.

Stena Vision is currently undergoing an intensive session in drydock in Gdansk which is overrunning at it was expected to end on the 19th.

"Stena Vision will Dry Dock from Monday 3rd of February until 19th of February. Last departure will be 20:30 from Karlskrona 2nd of February and arrive in Gdynia at 09:00 3rd of February. First departure after docking will be 09:00 19th of February.
During this period Stena Baltica will sail on Stena Visions regular Schedule. In order to give you a better service we will also add some extra departures Monday and Friday morning."

http://www.stenalinefreight.com/PublicMessaging/Message.mvc/ViewMessage/fe9995ef-89a9-4900-8513-d1e9789694d8

But now

"   
Dear Customer,
 
Stena Vision dry docking that where planned to be back the 24th will be extended for some days. She will be back in service 21:30 from Gdynia the 27th of February. We have during this period done the same change as we did for the first part of the docking period, Stena Baltica will sail in Stena Visions timetable. Stena Balticas regular departures during this period are canceled. Customers who have been booked on a canceled departure are informed by us with a notification mail, as well as with a new sailing time for the confirmed units."

http://www.stenalinefreight.com/PublicMessaging/Message.mvc/ViewMessage/cec43f44-6679-4f9e-926f-e5e2262fe814

http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=1980821

http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=1978490

http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=1973867

http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=1973866

http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=1973865

http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=1973863

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=816888928337982&set=pcb.816889245004617&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=816888971671311&set=pcb.816889245004617&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=816888955004646&set=pcb.816889245004617&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=816890731671135&set=a.198061026887445.60468.100000506486027&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=820760027950872&set=pcb.820760181284190&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=820760047950870&set=pcb.820760181284190&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=821203101239898&set=pcb.821204817906393&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=821203307906544&set=pcb.821204817906393&type=1&theater

« Last Edit: February 22, 2014, 10:13:31 PM by giftgrub »



Re: Stena Line fleet movements Reply #1298 on: February 22, 2014, 11:19:32 PM
You never know .  As regarding the Stena Nordica transfering to the Southern corridor.  To make her more suitable for the route .  They could give her a facelift.  I think I remember when Stena redeployed the Stena Europe on the Fishguard to Rosslare some 12 years ago  Not many were too happy about her being used on the route. But  after giving her a major refit.  In the end it pay off.  As she performed well during the pass years. As long as the ferry is  carrying good loadings then Stena will reconsider whats best for the route.  It depends how many are using the route.  Thats my view about  this.



Re: Stena Line fleet movements Reply #1299 on: February 22, 2014, 11:32:02 PM
Yes I remember John Hendy being very sceptical about the Europe coming to Rosslare, with a 2 million refit. I remember him remarking that 2 million "would barely paint half of the ship."
Well given what Stena have done at Birkenhead, I think they would almost certainly do the same to the Nordica and spruce her up a fair bit, should she move.

Thank you Giftgrub, I knew you would know :). If the Explorer is going to go within the next 18 months, I better book my ticket to sail on her ASAP.
Martin



Re: Stena Line fleet movements Reply #1300 on: February 23, 2014, 01:07:09 AM
Don't think it has been mentioned but Dieppe Seaways is currently at Remontowa, sitting beside her possible future fleetmate Stena Vision in the drydock occupied by Pont Aven until recently.  Remontowa have been busy lately!  I expect Jakub Boguki will have pics shortly!
Steve in Belfast (suburbia)

NI Ferry Site

Flickr: www.flickr.com/tarbyonline



Re: Stena Line fleet movements Reply #1301 on: February 23, 2014, 11:09:09 AM
Look at you knocking down my idle speculation with all your facts Giftgrub  ;)  Still though, things tend to change pretty quickly in this business so lets see what happens. I'd like to think that Dun Laoghaire will maintain at least a seasonal service in the medium term and thankfully at this stage, there seems to be a desire/willingness at Stena for that to happen. 

So much of what happens there is dependent not just on the price of fuel, but on the far larger expense for a shipping company and that is manpower.  The current situation on the Irish Sea (and possibly elsewhere, I don't have knowledge of other areas) sees vessel running costs being quite similar, but manpower costs being so much higher on the Stena side due to the maintenance of a generally UK/Irish crew.  Personally, that's not something I would like to see changing (given the high quality of onboard crew that Stena have) but by year end, things could be very different.



Re: Stena Line fleet movements Reply #1302 on: February 23, 2014, 01:16:05 PM
Having seen Fishguard's figures for the past few months its hard to see how Stena could justify any significant investment in Nordica.  She has more than enough Freight capacity and from a business point of view is it really worth increased year round costs to satisfy seasonal peaks of passengers who are going to pay the lowest fare possible anyway?  More passenger facilities = more crew and remember there will be more capacity at Holyhead to soak up any overspill.  There's a bigger picture to think of as well and without giving anything away this could be more viable than initially meets the eye.  Running Nordica at higher speed however is likely to eliminate any cost savings gained in the first place though.

Regarding Stena's crewing nothing has happened yet but the company know their local crews are an asset but like any business manpower is a major cost.  HR costs can make or break any company (unless you are subsidised by the French state ;) )

IF explorer does operate next year I'm pretty sure it will be her last.  Her costs are still quite eye watering especially given her lack of flexibility.  She's also nearing her 20th birthday so costs are only going to climb now.The costs required for any conversion would be very hard to justify given her age, particularly for a company striving to become more efficient.  The superfasts are highly marketable and the HSS is all but forgotten in Belfast by Joe public.

EDIT: Should also add that Fishguard - Rosslare figures for both December and January show passenger numbers are down on last year.  Explorers figures yoy can only be described as awful!
« Last Edit: February 23, 2014, 01:52:04 PM by Steven »
Steve in Belfast (suburbia)

NI Ferry Site

Flickr: www.flickr.com/tarbyonline



Re: Stena Line fleet movements Reply #1303 on: February 23, 2014, 02:34:55 PM
Having seen Fishguard's figures for the past few months its hard to see how Stena could justify any significant investment in Nordica.  She has more than enough Freight capacity and from a business point of view is it really worth increased year round costs to satisfy seasonal peaks of passengers who are going to pay the lowest fare possible anyway?  More passenger facilities = more crew and remember there will be more capacity at Holyhead to soak up any overspill.  There's a bigger picture to think of as well and without giving anything away this could be more viable than initially meets the eye.  Running Nordica at higher speed however is likely to eliminate any cost savings gained in the first place though.

Regarding Stena's crewing nothing has happened yet but the company know their local crews are an asset but like any business manpower is a major cost.  HR costs can make or break any company (unless you are subsidised by the French state ;) )

IF explorer does operate next year I'm pretty sure it will be her last.  Her costs are still quite eye watering especially given her lack of flexibility.  She's also nearing her 20th birthday so costs are only going to climb now.The costs required for any conversion would be very hard to justify given her age, particularly for a company striving to become more efficient.  The superfasts are highly marketable and the HSS is all but forgotten in Belfast by Joe public.

EDIT: Should also add that Fishguard - Rosslare figures for both December and January show passenger numbers are down on last year.  Explorers figures yoy can only be described as awful!

The Rosslare - Fishguard/Pembroke stats have been pretty scary for a few years now.  Looked at coldly, there is realistically no business case for two operators on pretty similar routes there particularly in the off season where both are almost totally reliant on freight traffic.  Nordica is a good compromise solution though if Rosslare-Fishguard is to be maintained for market share purposes.

I'm not too sure about the Explorer figures you quote Steven - the DOT figures for throughput at Dun Laoghaire are pretty similar for 2012 and 2013 from what I can see. Obviously way down on past years though, the seasonal single tripping and uncertainty going back to 2009 has really hurt the route and damaged it's viability.  I tend to agree that Explorer is in her final days (a great shame IMHO) but I'm not sure the same goes for the route.  Remember, that even with the extra capacity IF still run (occasionally!) Swift twice a day all year round for the tourist market and as I mention so often, to maintain market share!  I know the operator and the harbour company have been talking here - hope something comes of it!






Re: Stena Line fleet movements Reply #1304 on: February 23, 2014, 04:21:54 PM
Interesting debate as always.

A number of things occur to me:

* Would it actually be realistic to operate three sailings each way Rosslare-Fishguard with any conventional vessel? Based on a 3-hour crossing and a 1-hour turn around at each port it is possible on paper but in practice would it work? There would be zero recovery time for bad weather/high traffic volumes etc... That said perhaps it would work on certain days in Summer e.g. weekends. The routine sailings would need to be the same time each day with the additional sailings built around the routine schedule.

* While there may be spare capacity at Holyhead which will soak up some overspill, I don't think it is a good strategy to consider Dublin-Holyhead as being the solution for soaking up all overspill. Dublin/Dun Laoghaire-Holyhead and Rosslare-Fishguard link geographically different areas of Ireland and Britain and someone choosing to use Rosslare whether motorist, haulage firm or rail passenger is doing so because the route best lends itself for where s/he wants to go.

* Nothing wrong with the Stena Nordica, she does the job but would be a "step-down" in what Rosslare-Fishguard are used to. That said I'd much rather see her than no ship at all on the link. It is good to see Stena Line persevering and being able to meet the needs of diverse sections of the customer base. I don't doubt that the Southern Corridor can build itself up strongly but it won't happen overnight.

* Could a Superfast on Dun Laoghaire-Holyhead possibly see the restoration of a year-round link or is the issue of too many large vehicles/trucks around the Dun Laoghaire locality likely to be a precluding factor? It's hard to believe the Stena Explorer will be on the link 18 years this April. Remember in the early days the station platform would be thronged around HSS arrival time and there was even a DART boat train from Connolly at 0555 out to connect with the 0640 to Holyhead. How times have changed.