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Irish Ferries Enthusiasts => The News Board => Topic started by: ferryfan on July 05, 2019, 11:57:31 AM

Title: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: ferryfan on July 05, 2019, 11:57:31 AM
With all the difficulties and delays to builds at FSG you would have to believe that the estimated arrival of hull 777 of mid 2020 might be already unrealistic. If we look at the timeline of the construction of WB and use those times as rough guide to the time it will take to get the new build completed, she was first ordered in May 2016 with expected delivery of May 2018, her keel was laid in September 2017, she first hit the water in January 2018 entry into service delayed to July then September but it wasn't until late October that sea trials started. She was delivered to Irish Ferries in December 2018 and had her first sailing in January 2019.
So even withour any delays the estimated time from keel laying to delivery was estimated to be about 9 months but in reality it was about 16 months.
If 777 is to be deliverd on time you would have to expect the construction to begin within the next couple of months.
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: IFPete on July 05, 2019, 10:34:56 PM
Assuming the shipyard does not go bust Keel Laying could as early as  Friday 1st November 2019.

As Hull 777 is strategically important to Irish Ferries, I see there being a deal done to keep it at FSG.

Given the learning experience on WB Yeats a 12 month lead time should be achievable , if FSG has the cash to pay suppliers on time.

Hull 777 is more RO-Ro with less cabins , the remaining interior should be similar to WB Yeats. This should lesson the fittout time.

There are rumours circulating in Pembroke that as soon as Hull 777 is delivered an order will be placed to replace Isle of Inishmore.
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: Matt73 on July 08, 2019, 04:00:57 PM
Assuming the shipyard does not go bust Keel Laying could as early as  Friday 1st November 2019.

As Hull 777 is strategically important to Irish Ferries, I see there being a deal done to keep it at FSG.

Given the learning experience on WB Yeats a 12 month lead time should be achievable , if FSG has the cash to pay suppliers on time.

Hull 777 is more RO-Ro with less cabins , the remaining interior should be similar to WB Yeats. This should lesson the fittout time.

There are rumours circulating in Pembroke that as soon as Hull 777 is delivered an order will be placed to replace Isle of Inishmore.

What would be the rationale for replacing the Innishmore? She is hardly sailing full at present. Why would IF saddle themselves with the, unncessary, costs of paying off a new ship?  The Innishmore has plenty of years left in her yet. 

Matt
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: A83 on July 08, 2019, 04:16:46 PM
A smaller more fuel efficient ship?
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: alfie79 on July 08, 2019, 04:39:28 PM
Assuming the shipyard does not go bust Keel Laying could as early as  Friday 1st November 2019.

As Hull 777 is strategically important to Irish Ferries, I see there being a deal done to keep it at FSG.

Given the learning experience on WB Yeats a 12 month lead time should be achievable , if FSG has the cash to pay suppliers on time.

Hull 777 is more RO-Ro with less cabins , the remaining interior should be similar to WB Yeats. This should lesson the fittout time.

There are rumours circulating in Pembroke that as soon as Hull 777 is delivered an order will be placed to replace Isle of Inishmore.

What would be the rationale for replacing the Innishmore? She is hardly sailing full at present. Why would IF saddle themselves with the, unncessary, costs of paying off a new ship?  The Innishmore has plenty of years left in her yet. 

Matt
are IF very quieton the pembroke run
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: IFPete on July 08, 2019, 08:35:25 PM
She is almost 20 years young.
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: Steven on July 08, 2019, 11:25:39 PM
FSG777 isn't expected until "late" 2020 now according to the most recent report from ICG.  As for replacing Inishmore, the company already appear to be financed to the hilt paying for the existing two new builds.  Not saying it won't happen but they have their finances to look after (and the share price isn't looking too good at the moment either).  20 years is by no means old these days anyway.  Would a "smaller, more efficient ship" be able to cope with the peaks in the route as Inishmore does?  It would possibly make sense to wait at least 5 years before making another major new build investment.  Rumours of new ships usually do emerge when a company builds for another route.

Assuming the shipyard does not go bust Keel Laying could as early as  Friday 1st November 2019.

As Hull 777 is strategically important to Irish Ferries, I see there being a deal done to keep it at FSG.

Given the learning experience on WB Yeats a 12 month lead time should be achievable , if FSG has the cash to pay suppliers on time.

Hull 777 is more RO-Ro with less cabins , the remaining interior should be similar to WB Yeats. This should lesson the fittout time.

There are rumours circulating in Pembroke that as soon as Hull 777 is delivered an order will be placed to replace Isle of Inishmore.
Last I heard they allegedly didn't have enough engineers to finish the design of FSG777.  If the design isn't ready then the likes of Marine Project can't be having the steel cut to produce their sections either.  With suppliers having walked off site and moved on to other projects they may be at the back of the queue as well which will be slowing things down.

Don't underestimate the technical challenge of having that much freight that high up the superstructure either!  Cabins weigh a lot less that articulated lorries and cars!  It's a lot more complex than simply replacing the cabin deck with a vehicle deck.  If they don't get it right the ship will have serious stability and deadweight issues.  12 months might be pushing it for a repeat of Yeats given the yards troubles - they haven't delivered a passenger vessel on time for some time now either.   LEEVSTEN is 7th in a series of identical ships and it seems they are struggling a bit there.
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: IFPete on July 24, 2019, 04:47:06 PM
The question we will be answered  long before build 781 is launched. If they dont begin fabriation in early september of 777 its possible the yard may be in admistration. 
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: Steven on July 28, 2019, 12:15:06 AM
I have learned that FSG777 is actually very different from W.B. YEATS technically, not just in terms of her capacity and vehicle deck layout.  She has a totally different propulsion package for a start!  This is a lot more than removing some cabins and inserting a mid-section.

The question we will be answered  long before build 781 is launched. If they dont begin fabriation in early september of 777 its possible the yard may be in admistration. 
If the yard is in administration I'm sure we will find out from the local press anyhow
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: IFPete on July 28, 2019, 02:15:40 PM
Build 777 will have bigger engines and most likely rear thrusters to help her manouver in and out of the berths in Holyhead.
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: Steven on July 29, 2019, 02:29:40 AM
Build 777 will have bigger engines and most likely rear thrusters to help her manouver in and out of the berths in Holyhead.
Theres a berth in Dublin as well she needs to manoeuvre in and out of as well remember!  The engines are not just bigger, but from totally different manufacturer!  In terms of manoeuvring she's very different but then she will have a lot more weight to move around in addition to her extra length!!!  5 full freight decks and 1800 pax is a lot of weight.  The hull design is essentially a lengthened version of that used on Yeats.

With regard to milestones for 777, steel cutting on Yeats started in the April prior to her original delivery date from memory.  Keel laying was in the second week (I think) of September '17 by which time delivery was being stated as June for service in July IIRC.  Of course that never happened.  If "late 2020" is to be met then it's reasonable to expect something before Christmas anyway.  In the meantime, Stena Estrid looks to be well on target for being in service "early" next year.  Of course, there's a while to go yet.
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: IFPete on July 29, 2019, 11:07:16 AM
What was the rational of putting Stena Estrid on Stena Adventurers roster.
She has less freight and passenger capacity.
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: RorieLen on July 29, 2019, 01:41:19 PM
What was the rational of putting Stena Estrid on Stena Adventurers roster.
She has less freight and passenger capacity.

Exactly - it won’t happen if you ask me
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: Steven on July 31, 2019, 05:51:25 AM
What was the rational of putting Stena Estrid on Stena Adventurers roster.
She has less freight and passenger capacity.
Not sure where this suggestion came from, but Stena have been quite clear that it is STENA SUPERFAST X that is being replaced.  It would make no sense to replace adventurer with a smaller ship!
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: IFPete on July 31, 2019, 12:37:21 PM
I read somewhere that they were going to swap the rosters of Stena Estrid and Stena Adventurer.
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: RorieLen on July 31, 2019, 07:36:37 PM
I read somewhere that they were going to swap the rosters of Stena Estrid and Stena Adventurer.

Hardly likely for the reasons above, mainly that Estrid will still be smaller than Adventurer and she seems to work the busier sailings.
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: Steven on July 31, 2019, 09:42:55 PM
Sounds like madness given there are already times when Adventurer is full of freight on her night sailing!  Its for the same reason the intention is to run FSG777 on Ulysses schedule - that’s generally the busier sailing
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: SEA on August 12, 2019, 05:33:20 PM
Going back to the  topic of Hull 777  ..... I am south of the Boarder and I was like a lot of readers really very sad to hear of H&W closure  . It seems a shame that we have such a fabulous  amenity going into Liquidation and there again we see  FSG are unable to keep up with their management of their new builds ??.... This will never happen but here goes , If common sense were to prevail why cant the modules for the new ship be floated over from Poland to Belfast and the ship could be built here  in Ireland creating jobs and saving employment . Irish Ferry  Irish jobs, sounds crazy but will never happen .
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: IFPete on August 12, 2019, 05:56:11 PM
Build 781 is progressing again. Build 780 looks ready for sea trials.

Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: marsav68 on August 13, 2019, 08:00:35 AM
Build 781 is progressing again. Build 780 looks ready for sea trials.


And I noticed they were painting the hull on Honfleur over the weekend.
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: marsav68 on August 19, 2019, 08:15:28 AM
Hull 780 - Leevsten - appears to be taking on fuel this morning and a lot of progress on 781 the last week.

Painting continuing on Honfleur

http://31.209.185.102/view/viewer_index.shtml?id=114000
http://31.209.185.103/view/viewer_index.shtml?id=125901
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: marsav68 on August 22, 2019, 08:57:41 AM
Hull 780 - Leevsten - seems to have started sea trials this morning.
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: giftgrub on August 23, 2019, 09:46:38 PM
Talk on the Facebook that IF next new build might come from China and not FSG.

https://www.tradewindsnews.com/shipyards/irish-ferries-eyes-china-for-next-ropax-amid-delays-in-germany/2-1-658054?fbclid=IwAR14aVlGl5VQ6aIJN2Y6rApq2xCrLFoN4FJsn_0hANmxXNNgidxKOgiUSLk

One of the yards mentioned is Avic Weihai where the Stena EFlexer series are being built. Obviously would be a big delay if rumors are true and a new ship ordered and designed.

Unlikely but not impossible IF could even charter a version of the E Flexer themselves, Brittany Ferries and DFDS seem happy with the concept.
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: IFPete on August 23, 2019, 10:49:34 PM
We may find out next thursday, when the company issues a trading update.

I would be surprised if Hull 777 is cancelled. The Shipyard is settling down,
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: Steven on August 26, 2019, 01:55:45 PM
More on the China reports at NI Ferry Site and some details of the FSG design and in particular the three tier bow loading.  If the China report is true it may well just be part of a contingency plan.  With regard to delivery date it looks on the surface as though it would need to be 2023, but Jinling have huge capacity and also a number of sister yards - they also appear to already starting to work together.

https://www.niferry.co.uk/could-irish-ferries-new-dublin-holyhead-ferry-be-built-in-china-instead-of-germany/

The Shipyard is settling down,
Is that a fact or just your opinion though?  To be honest it’s hard to see how this vessel will be ready during 2020 - which again may trigger severe delivery penalties.  There’s been some speculation that it might actually be cheaper for FSG to cancel the order themselves!  There also still seems to be a question mark over the finance to commence the build.  At the end of the day if they can’t afford to start the ship there will be no ship.
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: IFPete on August 26, 2019, 05:19:24 PM
The fact that vessels are being completed is good news. Most Bankrupties are sudden leaving carnage everywhere.

The issue of financing would be a matter for EU or German Local Goverment. If it does not come then the shipyard will be forced to close. I would imagine that FSG will make an announcement soon.
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: Steven on August 27, 2019, 04:50:54 PM
The fact that vessels are being completed is good news. Most Bankrupties are sudden leaving carnage everywhere.

The issue of financing would be a matter for EU or German Local Goverment. If it does not come then the shipyard will be forced to close. I would imagine that FSG will make an announcement soon.
The big problem is the local government appear to have run out of patience with a yard that they have been supporting but for over a decade but continues to lose money.  It seems promises to turn things around if they get funding have been made and broken - I suppose the state has to justify to all of their citizens why millions continue to get thrown at one workplace to sustain around 600 jobs.  With the shipyards location on the border with Denmark all of those jobs won’t even be done by people living in the state either!  Looking at subcontractors and the like a lot of those jobs are outside the region as well.  Whether the new investor will eventually put their hands in their pocket remains to be seen - perhaps they see it as a last resort.  From the state and EU perspective the investment company knew what they where getting into when they agreed to take a majority stake so why should they bankroll the yard for an investment firm to take any profit?  The EU can hardly step in when they haven’t elsewhere where shipbuilding has been a much bigger employer, for example in Spain.  Perhaps we will find out more on Thursday in any case!  I’m sure all of us agree it is better if this ship gets built as planned.  As I pointed out elsewhere even if it was delivered a year late it would likely arrive much sooner than a vessel ordered from elsewhere!  You can see why ICG might want an insurance policy though given it will take months, even years to arrange an alternative ship!
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: ferryfan on September 27, 2019, 11:18:43 AM
The timetable for WB Yeats for next year shows that she will operate the route from end of March to end of September 2020.
So the original plan that 777 would be in service by "mid 2020" (according to IF) is clearly not going to happen. If WB is not operating to France after September 2020 then you could assume that 777 is not now expected to be in service at that time. The original plan was for 777 to take over from Epsilon which was in turn to be returned to her owners and for WB to operate year round Dublin to Cherbourg.
Of course if 777 does arrive on time! things can change.
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: IFPete on September 27, 2019, 06:34:22 PM
Build 777 is not due until late 2020 , December 2020 if everything goes to plan. Epsilons lease is due for renewal Nov 2020.
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: jimjoe on September 27, 2019, 07:12:54 PM
Build 777 is not due until late 2020 , December 2020 if everything goes to plan. Epsilons lease is due for renewal Nov 2020.

In their half year results ICG said they’ve a further 1 year option after that if needed. Covering themselves for delays by the sounds of it
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: IFPete on September 28, 2019, 11:46:21 AM
Epsilon could be a great candidate for lengthening and accomodation extension in the future.
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: Steven on October 01, 2019, 09:59:41 AM
Epsilon could be a great candidate for lengthening and accomodation extension in the future.
Only way ICG could do that would be to purchase her surely?  That’s assuming C&T even want to sell given how recently they purchased her.
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: IFPete on October 06, 2019, 11:48:47 AM
Thats quit possible.

epsilon would have more freight space and ability to extend her passenger accomodation.
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: A83 on October 08, 2019, 08:14:33 AM
Is it wise for IF to pause the purchase of Hull 777 in light of the Brexit tribulations? All the talk of setting up Rosslare to Le Havre and Cork-Spain suggests that serious measures will be taken to increase direct services. However there is only a finite amount of traffic to go round. Might Dublin- Holyhead be oversupplied with new capacity in 2021?
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: Steven on October 08, 2019, 08:42:06 AM
Is it wise for IF to pause the purchase of Hull 777 in light of the Brexit tribulations? All the talk of setting up Rosslare to Le Havre and Cork-Spain suggests that serious measures will be taken to increase direct services. However there is only a finite amount of traffic to go round. Might Dublin- Holyhead be oversupplied with new capacity in 2021?
Talk of setting up new routes is all very well, actually starting one is a very different proposition!  You’d need a lot of ships just to mirror the capacity on any Ireland to the Continent route  provided by one ship sailing on Dublin - Holyhead. 
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: Chef on October 21, 2019, 11:59:44 PM
Looks like there should be a launch this week at FSG of the Ro/Ro in the building hall , so I would expect to see some announcement soon about the next IF build if FSG are still in contention .
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: IFPete on October 22, 2019, 04:35:25 PM
There is still nothing out in the Media about the status of Build 777 or its two Australian cousins.

The design must be almost complete for Build 777 for construction to commence.

I understand that most of the delays attributed to both Honfluer and WB Yeats were due to electrical installation work required as part of the new return to port protocall. WB Yeats has two separate engine rooms, two Bridge decks and two separate PA systems with wiring routed through the ship in different locations.

I took a trip on her on sunday and was very impressed. I know people say she is souless compared to Oscar Wilde, however she looks like she has progressed well and a few pictures and mood lighting adjustments could give her some soul.
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: Steven on October 23, 2019, 02:38:17 PM
There is still nothing out in the Media about the status of Build 777 or its two Australian cousins.

The design must be almost complete for Build 777 for construction to commence.

I understand that most of the delays attributed to both Honfluer and WB Yeats were due to electrical installation work required as part of the new return to port protocall. WB Yeats has two separate engine rooms, two Bridge decks and two separate PA systems with wiring routed through the ship in different locations.
German media has already reported that three ferries for two operators will be completed.  There will be an increase in the number of workers sent home, however, raising from 20 to 100!

All standard SRtP stuff.  I believe the SRtP bridge is located in the base of the main mast (like SPIRIT OF BRITAIN/France).  It only has the essentials.

Looks like there should be a launch this week at FSG of the Ro/Ro in the building hall , so I would expect to see some announcement soon about the next IF build if FSG are still in contention .
End of the month I believe.  A heavy lift crane barge is already on its way.
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: marsav68 on October 29, 2019, 08:50:21 AM
#781 looks ready to launch today and Leevsten has finally moved off the quay.
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: IFPete on October 29, 2019, 03:37:01 PM
They needed the space for Build 781
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: Niall on October 29, 2019, 03:47:03 PM
LIEKUT now occupying outfitting berth where LEEVSTEN was. Latter is anchored in Gerlting Bay awaiting orders
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: IFPete on October 29, 2019, 05:46:49 PM
She has no work,
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: Kieran on October 29, 2019, 10:04:14 PM
She has no work,
Well, that's an interesting investment decision someone mad...
Title: Re: Irish Ferries HUll 777
Post by: Steven on October 31, 2019, 01:11:17 AM
She has no work,
Well, that's an interesting investment decision someone mad...
More or less a decision to give the yard work to keep it going by the for,er majority shareholder.  Word was she was going to Moby/Tirrenia originally and her funnel is already in the appropriate shade of blue.  However, things aren’t good at Moby and bankruptcy is still a very real possibility (they’ve already warded off one attempted proceeding earlier this month).  The banks are now dictating what the company does and have effectively halted the sale of the two ships for Newcastle to DFDS, leading to DFDS terminating the agreement.  of course this has stopped a significant amount of cash coming in, but it would have also saw the company losing two of its most valuable assets.  There’s also the not insignificant matter of the €180m they owe for Tirrenia, payment of which has been deferred a few times. 

Anyway, back to FSG 777.  Shippax say they “understand” steel cutting is on hold (reported on NI Ferry Site as well).  Getting HONFLEUR delivered is the priority, though Brittany Ferries are clearly not taking chances as she’s not on their timetable next year.  Which begs the question, when will we see 777?  ICG are due a market update next month so we’ll see if there’s anything mentioned then.