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Just shows the difference a bit of maintenance can make.  Compare to the pride of York (a newer ship) half way down this link http://hhvferry.com/blog/?s=pride+of+york.  The same site also has a pic somewhere of the Spirit of Britain starting to look rusty onboard months after entering service. 

Out of interest does the UK or Ireland have an upper age limit for ferries?

TBH I doubt a bit of paint and some reupholstering costs much in the grand scheme of things.  Its the heavy mechanical work that costs the real money I would have thought and IIRC the refit wasnt long enough for anything major to be done mechanically.  Like a used car a good clean and a service can work wonders I am sure. 

From what I can see Fishguard -Rosslare never really carried much freight compared to the other crossings, but now the passenger and car numbers have dried up as well.  Personally I think Swansea - Cork makes more sense from a haulage point of view (or Bristol - Cork) and it would probably be easier to promote Cork and Bristol as a destination for tourists than Rosslare or Fishguard (though the long crossing time would likely put many off).  The Vissentini ro-paxes would probably be well suited to such an operation (if there was enough demand) where the bulk of traffic could be unaccompanied.  I work out a distance of 123 miles between Cork and Rosslare, while there are 148 miles between Fishguard and Bristol making a total potential saving of 261 miles worth of fuel and wages for the Cork based haulier each way!  However I think a ropax is more likely than the likes of the Stena Saga which is too geared towards passengers IMO (I seem to remember she was removed from the Hoek as she was too costly to operate)

Even if the Fishguard route is viable or not the Stena Europe isn't getting any younger and so you would hope Stena already have some sort of plan for the future to put in place.  I also notice that Varberg - Grena continues to operate despite historically having less traffic than Rosslare to Fishguard (and IIRC this is still the case) which has to be a positive for the route.  Personally having read what I have over the past few days I feel if a replacement ship does come she will be smaller than the Europe rather than larger.

I posted some numbers over on the news board for those that may have missed it (in the stena thread) here http://www.irish-ferries-enthusiasts.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1223826891/977#977.  Please put any discussion in this thread as it would be more appropriate (i.e. not off topic) rather than in the news thread.

Which review?

This is it from the beginning http://www.hhvferry.com/rosslare07_1.html

stunning pics! delighted you found them, any idea when exactly this was

2004.

Came across HHV's 2007 comparison of the sessan twins today when doing a bit of research.  http://www.hhvferry.com/rosslare07_2.html .  Even back then the Normandy was in a bad state (rusted through deck heads!!) and though the Europe was looking tired in places she was about to go in for a 5 day refit the following day.  The Europe certainly looked much more modern IMHO.  Obviously things have changed since then on the Europe but the state of the 2 vessels back then demonstrates why one is still in European revenue earning service and the other is on a beach being cut up.

On a slightly related note, is there any particular reason why the Inishmore has Sulzer power and the Jutlandica MAN?  Or is it just down to operator preference rather than technical or operational reasons.  Jutlandica would be a good fit but is she maybe "too" new?  Perhaps Stena would prefer to put something older on the southern corridor.  Would have been nice for Baltica to have come back though I heard somewhere the Olau twins cost P&O a fortune to run at Portsmouth so maybe this is why Stena where happy to sell despite the cost of the quite recent modifications.

So it would take more than a Stena Spirit/Vision style makeover then? Afterall there is only a year difference in age. I didn't realise engines were so cheap, but in the grand scheme of things I suppose its only a small part of a much larger entity.  That and I assume only 1 engine of the 4 was replaced anyway.

Sorry, got my ships mixed up - I believe its 5 years age different.  Even still, could she not get the same treatment?  Also, is there not a law on the age of car ferries or is it just a matter of getting to the stage that they can now longer comply with the continually updated regulations?

So it would take more than a Stena Spirit/Vision style makeover then? Afterall there is only a year difference in age. I didn't realise engines were so cheap, but in the grand scheme of things I suppose its only a small part of a much larger entity.  That and I assume only 1 engine of the 4 was replaced anyway.

Having never sailed on this ship (or her late sister) what sort of condition is she in?  IIRC she got new engines a couple of years back so I'm thinking that Stena wouldnt have invested the money if she was in THAT bad a condition.  Or is it a case that its cheaper to keep patching her up than pay a higher charter fee for a newer ship?  I assume she is in decent condition structurally for instance?

PS Does anyone else think she looks like she was designed with nothing but a ruler and a pencil? :)

Just to clarify a few of the points raised tonight, the switch to a "Low Cost" operation by Stena Line is not intended to become a Ryanair of the seas set up, the intention is to return the business to profitability by lowering the cost of doing business while maximising the number of passengers per crossing and their onboard spend.

One of the main decisions has been to reduce shore based staff and try to make on-board staff as flexible as possible. Given their existing fleet and the upgrades on the Irish Sea in the last refits, they will still offer a very competitive product and even the poor old Stena Europe is still a very nice vessel for the 3 1/2 hour crossing and the Stena + service is excellent.

One alternative way to describe the "Low Cost" mantra is "Work Harder" for both the vessels and crew and as costs fall it will allow them to return to profit and secure the future of the business.

The new vessel order is rumored to be based on a common hull design which will be in various lengths and allow them to have various passenger capacity depending on route, something not a million miles away from the Stena Adventurer in overall concept can be expected. Hindsight is great but I would imagine Stena RoRo wish they ordered more of the Seamaster class at the time as the price from Hyundai was very competitve.

The Stena Nordica is not a vessel that will easily be allowed to leave the Dublin - Holyhead route by the route managers to provide cover, it regularly sails at near capacity and offers a valuable service on the central corridor, any moves to transfer it from Dublin will be resisted unless absolutely essential.

I thought as the Nordica provided the refit cover this year that she was perhaps thought of as the "spare" ship to cover absences.  She does seem a good fit but then she was originally intended for a similar crossing.  The reason I thought of the Nordica is that she did do berthing trials down at Rosslare in the past, and obviously the Ambassador is bigger than her running mate.  I saw the Nautica while she was up in Belfast but couldnt get used to the Stena Colours as I'm that used to the P&O twins up at Larne.

IIRC the Seapacer and Seamaster share a lot of common features as the Seamaster is a development of the Seapacer as I understand it.  IN a way what is being discussed about a potential new order already has a precedent, albeit in this case it was spread out over several years and involved more than one yard.  Likewise the lengthening of the Seamaster Britannica (now Germanica) and shortening of the Stena Trader to become Blue Puttees in a way show this concept is already at work.  However there surely will need to be some sort of trade off in hull design for significantly longer and shorter ships?  It will be interesting to see how it all pans out and also where any eventual order will go to.  However I'm sure Stena can negotiate the price down based on a significant number of orders or options.

I seem to remember the intentions for the original sea pacer and sea bridger classes to be similar though this didnt quite work out as planned.  Yet all are still in employment.  I can certainly see the merits in running a standard design and the Vissentini sisters show there are definite benefits to this approach.  I suppose its no accident that many of this series now operate for or are owned by Stena.  I could certainly see Stena building extra to sell or charter as well.  However, would such standarisation allow ships to work equally well on short sea and over night services?  When does the modified standard design cease to resemble the standard design and become a class in its own right.

"I note the Contentin is apparently available for sale or charter from October.  Bit of a long shot but would she be suitable for conversion to ropax?"


Excellent idea there!  She's very new and I'm sure that it is possible to use her in a number of different ways.  I wonder if the Stena RORO team is on the case?

If not I wonder if they have any jobs going lol.  Even if too big for Rosslare - Fishguard she could free up the Nordica at Holyhead and possibly be a better match for the Adventurer.  Would fit in with the whole Stenability concept. Something along the lines of the conversion TT line did a few years back could solve a problem

Just as an aside , while we are talking about the Stena newbuilds , I can see Belfast getting at least 2 and maybe as many as 6 over the lifetime of the building programme.

I seem to remember mention of there being an option to purchase on the Superfasts when their charter term expires.  They're very nice ships, IMO, so I'd be hoping they're kept on the route...

This sprang to my mind as well.  IIRC there is an option to extend or purchase outright.  Given the investment in the refit to make them suitable for use as day ferries and the fact that they seem to be working well on the route I would have thought it unlikely that they are to leave the fleet at the end of the initial charter period.

I always thought Stena Jutlandica would have been a good fit for the south corridor.  I would think the Europe would have quite high fuel consumption compared to newer tonnage plus all this extra maintenance must be adding up.  Jutlandica has a slightly larger capacity, more modern machinery, and a higher speed meaning she could be run slower to save bunkers.  Plus she could easily be modified I would assume to be more suitable for the route if she needed uprated thrusters for example as her near sister sails for the opposition.  The cost would also be much lower than acquiring a new vessel. If an interior refurb was undertaken and she was given a fresh coat of paint I doubt the vast majority of passengers would think she was anything other than a new ship.

Re emissions I know it is possible to retrofit SCR (ie ad blue after treatment) to older diesel engines but don't know whether this is practical in marine applications.  Surely repowering would be cheaper than new builds but then Stena possibly are looking at the long term by the sounds of things as regulations are going to continue to get tougher and tougher despite the relatively small difference they make in light of what's going on in developing economies.

Whereas it may be possible to fix up the Europe perhaps the cost of this would be similar or more than replacing her with a ship 10 years younger.  RE the Lagan IMHO she would be wholly unsuitable plus Stena have previously stated that the former Vikings are an excellent fit for the route.  Personally I thought the Europe would have been replaced years ago but perhaps the revenues just aren't there to justify the financial investment.  However by the sounds of things something will need to be done in the near future, and a ropax type will surely be more efficient than a ferry like the Europe which is from a totally different era when duty free could subsidise fares, etc ::)

I note the Contentin is apparently available for sale or charter from October.  Bit of a long shot but would she be suitable for conversion to ropax?

Sorry I can only find deckplans myself.  Probably best to look under her original name Kronprins Harald.

Regarding the separate query about flags of convenience, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_flags_of_convenience is a good start, but there appear to be a few different definitions of what exactly a flag of convenience is (I recall reading in Alan Ogilvie's Olau book that the German second register was considered as such by the German crew as it did not require an all German crew for example, but under some definitions a flag of convenience is when a ship is flagged to a country different to that which it is owned in).  The Isle of Man's  standards required exceed the internationally agreed minimums (in the sense that unlike the Bahamas, Bolivia, etc they have ratified international maritime conventions) AFAIK though it is a flag of convenience in the sense a ship can be registered there to reduce costs. 

Its all quite a complex subject from what I can see but in order to register a ship in the Isle of Man or Gibraltar my understanding is that certificates of competency have to be provided for officers on board (and these are only accepted if issued by certain countries) whereas this is not the case for other countries who will accept a ship to their registry with virtually no checks at all.  Both IoM and Gibraltar registered ships also fly the Red Ensign. 

In the grand scheme of things now we are all in the EU does it really matter if a crew is from Eastern Europe so long as they do their jobs properly (and in my experience in the food industry local people could learn a lot from Eastern Europeans - particularly work ethic!)