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Dun Laoghaire Not out of the game yet?(Read 30945 times)
Dun Laoghaire Not out of the game yet? on: March 05, 2015, 12:22:54 pm
Seven Ferry Operators Express Interest to Run Seasonal Dun Laoghaire Service!
Jehan Ashmore on Afloat.ie
http://afloat.ie/port-news/ferry-news/item/28010-seven-ferry-operators-express-interest-to-run-seasonal-dun-laoghaire-service



Re: Dun Laoghaire Not out of the game yet? Reply #1 on: March 05, 2015, 03:10:59 pm
Good to see such interest! Apparently it's not just routes to Holyhead that have been suggested by operators.

I saw mention in the press of a proposed tourist route to France via South Wales (presumably would require work at DL to accomodate a conventional) in addition to Liverpool and IOM as well as the usual suspects (plus at least one other) to Holyhead using fastcraft.  Obviously we won't see the details of the expressions (at this stage) unless the operators themselves choose to show their hands.  We can probably guess at most of them!

Next stage would be a more formal tender for a service/services.  Interesting days.

Pete



Re: Dun Laoghaire Not out of the game yet? Reply #2 on: March 05, 2015, 04:12:11 pm
Who do people think the operators are?



Re: Dun Laoghaire Not out of the game yet? Reply #3 on: March 05, 2015, 09:18:41 pm
Expression of interest.  Something anyone can submit. Something I could submit (wish I had now).
Anyone who has actually looked at the invitation knows that it was specific for a seasonal service between Dun Laoghaire and Holyhead, and that the berth is a max of 140m long.  The plans must also be compatible with the master plan.  Putting that aside...

Route to Liverpool = 2 round trips a day with a single fast craft.  Been tried and didn't work, and that was when the airlines where less aggressive in their pricing.
Route to Holyhead = Irish ferries dump their (swift) prices and force the operator out of business, besides the central corridor is already over capacity.  Does anyone really think Stena are going to let some newcomer take a share of their market after they have invested so much in SSF X?
Route to France via Wales = a non-starter.  Besides, how difficult would it be really for IF to run Epsilon to France around the week if they though it was viable?

Good luck to anyone who thinks they can run a ferry service from Dun Laoghaire.  Not only will they need it, they'll also need very deep pockets just to get off the ground and a vessel capable of operating to Dun Laoghaire.  Sorry to be so cynical.

Who do people think the operators are?

Whats Ernst Munk up to these days?  Or the guy behind Euroferries?  Or even that Regina Line lot?  ::)
Steve in Belfast (suburbia)

Flickr: www.flickr.com/tarbyonline



Re: Dun Laoghaire Not out of the game yet? Reply #4 on: March 05, 2015, 10:17:48 pm
Who do people think the operators are?

Think I've mentioned this possibility before, but my first guess is IOMSPCo. This would give them their own dedicated berth in Ireland for Mannanan - something they lack in Dublin. However, I would expect Ben My Chree would continue sailing to Dublin with the freight. Not sure about her draft either.



Re: Dun Laoghaire Not out of the game yet? Reply #5 on: March 05, 2015, 10:48:14 pm
Fair point being made here about the steps that IF/Stena would take to preserve their position on the Central Corridor.  Easiest way to protect that position would seem to me to be to do it themselves.  Do not be surprised if Swift is calling at Dun Laoghaire next Summer.  Makes the competition problem go away and the monopoly continues.

The IOMSPC point makes sense too.  Handy for them as Davy says to have their own berth.  No problem for Mannanan obviously but BMC would need a bit of work on draft, berth length is no problem.  Additionally, the HSS kit will have to be removed (at considerable cost to Stena remember) so there is scope to do work on that side of the berth which in turn would free up that area between terminal and Carlisle pier for leisure redevelopment.

Pete



Re: Dun Laoghaire Not out of the game yet? Reply #6 on: March 05, 2015, 11:16:18 pm
Do not be surprised if Swift is calling at Dun Laoghaire next Summer.  Makes the competition problem go away and the monopoly continues.

I was thinking exactly the same...



Re: Dun Laoghaire Not out of the game yet? Reply #7 on: March 06, 2015, 01:13:13 am
Just to diversify ever so slightly, I notice Google Maps have recently updated their satellite view of Dun Laoghaire and a fairground is now in place on Carlisle Pier. Is this a permanent fixture or a travelling fair which happened to be in the right place at the right time?



Re: Dun Laoghaire Not out of the game yet? Reply #8 on: March 06, 2015, 12:48:05 pm
No they are not a permanent fixture



Re: Dun Laoghaire Not out of the game yet? Reply #9 on: March 10, 2015, 05:28:42 pm
Fair point being made here about the steps that IF/Stena would take to preserve their position on the Central Corridor.  Easiest way to protect that position would seem to me to be to do it themselves.  Do not be surprised if Swift is calling at Dun Laoghaire next Summer.  Makes the competition problem go away and the monopoly continues.

The IOMSPC point makes sense too.  Handy for them as Davy says to have their own berth.  No problem for Mannanan obviously but BMC would need a bit of work on draft, berth length is no problem.  Additionally, the HSS kit will have to be removed (at considerable cost to Stena remember) so there is scope to do work on that side of the berth which in turn would free up that area between terminal and Carlisle pier for leisure redevelopment.

Pete
Don't be surprised if Swift is gone in a couple of years either.  Anyone who plans to operate has to do so in a way which is compatible with the master plan which is going to put limits on things.  The invitations have been sought to operate from the existing berth to the side of the HSS berth.  What's the maximimum craft length from the HSS berth?  Can't be much if any longer than the berth already available?!?

There would also be a rise in costs for IF by relocating Swift - one example being staffing needing duplicated across the 2 locations.  They'd be doing the opposite of what Stena are doing and increasing costs and reducing efficiency.
Steve in Belfast (suburbia)

Flickr: www.flickr.com/tarbyonline



Re: Dun Laoghaire Not out of the game yet? Reply #10 on: March 10, 2015, 05:55:01 pm
Just had a look at the specs for Ben My Chree. Her loaded draft is only 5.6m. Not sure of the amount of water below the link-span on St Michaels pier but she may possibly be able to swim there. St Columba was 4.7m and she berthed there regularly. Of course with only little use recently - and that by the lynx - the berth is bound to have silted up a bit but as long as it's not rock down there it is easily dredged.

http://www.steam-packet.com/OurVessels/Ben-My-Chree

If IOMSPCo's Primary Freight ship was to come to the port however, how would that lie with the locals, whom were glad to lose the heavy traffic to Dublin? (Although I would guess the HSS would have brought more freight on a weekly basis than Ben My Chree is ever likely to do).



Re: Dun Laoghaire Not out of the game yet? Reply #11 on: March 10, 2015, 06:02:59 pm
The Isle Of Man Steam Packet Company have no interest in changing their specified Republic of Ireland Port from Dublin to Dun Laoghaire.

A limited number of sailings have already been operated to Dun Laoghaire in the past, and a permanent change in Port has already been looked at, though the Steam Packet Company intends to continue serving Dublin Port.



Re: Dun Laoghaire Not out of the game yet? Reply #12 on: March 10, 2015, 06:04:38 pm
Swift may not be around in a few years but for now she's there and very much part of the game.  I still reckon she is the most likely visitor to Dun Laoghaire for the next couple of summers at least.  The cost of having her operate from DL in the Summer really isn't that much - Stena used a handful of contract staff operating the terminal on a part-time basis in the Summer and it wasn't the economics of that which killed the HSS! 

Yes, there is an extra expense but it's cheaper and more efficient than having to go through the mill of competing with any new arrival who might well take the trip South and take even a modest market share.

The Masterplan seeks to consolidate shipping in the 'middle' of the current area.  Since HSS is gone, it would make sense in the longer term to build the cruise berth where it is proposed near the marina and move the fastcraft berth to where the HSS gear currently is.   That's currently a 6m+ draft (although it's going to be dredged for the cruise berth) with really as much space as you want in terms of length sticking out into the harbour.  That's longer term though - in the short to medium term, there is space for pretty much any fastcraft on St Michaels pier with the pontoon and gangway from the terminal building. 

Pete



Re: Dun Laoghaire Not out of the game yet? Reply #13 on: May 21, 2015, 03:01:12 pm
It looks like the Dun  laoghaire  cruise season has  run in to big problems  a week into it ,as the MSC  splendida has decided to berth in  Dublin port  instead of  dunlaoghaire on its summer visits ,and now  royal princess which did berth off dunlaoghaire last week has now decided to berth in Dublin port on Sunday instead ,she is due to visit dunlaoghaire 8 more times this summer ,and by the looks of it is going to go to Dublin port instead,  One can't blame them ,the tenders from the ship to shore are a lot of hassle ,in these times slow , time consuming ,choppy seas etc one can't beat just walking down the gangway and you are there.  . I suppose the best dunlaoghaire can do is ,that once they get the green light for the cruise terminal, that instead of the 15 month build plan they go full on and get it built in half the time ,and get a bit of business in next summer.



Re: Dun Laoghaire Not out of the game yet? Reply #14 on: May 21, 2015, 03:41:28 pm
Swift may not be around in a few years but for now she's there and very much part of the game.  I still reckon she is the most likely visitor to Dun Laoghaire for the next couple of summers at least.  The cost of having her operate from DL in the Summer really isn't that much - Stena used a handful of contract staff operating the terminal on a part-time basis in the Summer and it wasn't the economics of that which killed the HSS! 

Yes, there is an extra expense but it's cheaper and more efficient than having to go through the mill of competing with any new arrival who might well take the trip South and take even a modest market share.

The Masterplan seeks to consolidate shipping in the 'middle' of the current area.  Since HSS is gone, it would make sense in the longer term to build the cruise berth where it is proposed near the marina and move the fastcraft berth to where the HSS gear currently is.   That's currently a 6m+ draft (although it's going to be dredged for the cruise berth) with really as much space as you want in terms of length sticking out into the harbour.  That's longer term though - in the short to medium term, there is space for pretty much any fastcraft on St Michaels pier with the pontoon and gangway from the terminal building. 

Pete
The masterplan seems to indicate that the HSS berth is needed for the cruise berth anyway.  Certainly for wider ships it would seem necessary to me.  Again, tenders where sought to operate from the existing fast craft berth.  Any change to the masterplan would surely involve yet more wrangling and another application for planning permission?

Aprils figures at least show a downward trend overall in GB to Ireland passengers and cars. There is a shift towards the central corridor of course, but its hardly an ideal scenario for a new operator.  From the perspective of moving the swift, it'll take a lot of marketing (or Ryan Air style fare dumping in the short term at least) to persuade people that some place "near" Dublin is better than somewhere called Dublin (albeit in the middle of an industrial park).  Theres also other considerations, such as where to put the crew - Ulysses is going to be in Dublin port whilst the crew are in Dun Laoghaire, so they'll need bused up to get some sleep, etc.


It looks like the Dun  laoghaire  cruise season has  run in to big problems  a week into it ,as the MSC  splendida has decided to berth in  Dublin port  instead of  dunlaoghaire on its summer visits ,and now  royal princess which did berth off dunlaoghaire last week has now decided to berth in Dublin port on Sunday instead ,she is due to visit dunlaoghaire 8 more times this summer ,and by the looks of it is going to go to Dublin port instead,  One can't blame them ,the tenders from the ship to shore are a lot of hassle ,in these times slow , time consuming ,choppy seas etc one can't beat just walking down the gangway and you are there.  . I suppose the best dunlaoghaire can do is ,that once they get the green light for the cruise terminal, that instead of the 15 month build plan they go full on and get it built in half the time ,and get a bit of business in next summer.
At the moment there seem still to be some objections to overcome.  Some of us saw this coming tbh, especially with Dublin looking to expand their own capability. 
Steve in Belfast (suburbia)

Flickr: www.flickr.com/tarbyonline