Dun Laoghaire Not out of the game yet?

[20knots]

When the Stena Lynx was launched between Dun Laoghaire and Holyhead in 1993 the literature used the term "Dublin Bay". In fact I recall having to check that the service was actually serving Dun Laoghaire – my gut feeling was 90% sure it was but the term "Dublin Bay" whilst a nice marketing appellation created a bit of uncertainty.

Essentially anyone who has lived in Ireland all/most their lives is well aware where Dun Laoghaire is located. The only exception to that would be people who have moved to Ireland from elsewhere in the world and perhaps youngsters.

Over the years a much greater proportion of folk here would have emigrated across to Britain hence Dun Laoghaire is essentially universally known here whereas in Britain away from Anglesey/N. Wales knowledge may be more patchy and confined to folk with Irish connections etc...

Dun Laoghaire is an easy sell for foot passengers  due to the adjacency of the rail station and through ticketing - much more appealing to take the DART – essentially turn up and enjoy a scenic run along the coast citywards (or south towards Bray/Wicklow for that matter) only taking a few minutes longer than a bus from Dublin port. For motorists not so easy a sell.

Like many matters a glass half full half empty scenario. As was said some months ago it's very easy to be negative about things and why things can't be done and of course there are commercial considerations/practicalities but my personal opinion is that a bit more positivity is needed in the shipping sphere at times.

[DublinPeter]

Very well said 20Knots.  I think the positivity and expansionist spirit that existed in many areas of business took a real hammering from the economic collapse and it is only now that people are starting to look at speculating in business again now.  The playing field has changed very considerably since that collapse (the migration towards the central corridor being the principal effect) but as with every business, there is always room to grow the market and take a chance. 

In Dun Laoghaires case specifically, the Harbour Company are in serious discussions with 2 operators and are under quite a bit of pressure to get a win on this one so I would say it is now much more likely than 3 months ago that there will be a DL service in 2016.  Yes there is risk involved, but that's how commerce works :)

Pete

[Stena explorer]

Interesting you say there are two company's interested  in operating out of Dun laoghaire in 2016' anyone any clues to who they are?.  Anyway there is the potential for 250,000 passangers to use the service in the April -September  season, for the average motorist,  it is not that difficult to get to Dun laoghaire  (15 minutes off peak from junction 16 on m50 cherrywood to dunlaoghaire , even a few minutes less if you get a run of the traffic lights ,also with rail and bus station 50 meters away it's very handy for foot passangers, only problem is trying to sinc ferry times in with holyhead rail departures ,but could easily be done , and of course the big one , To Have A very Competive Price. And good advertising and anything is possible.  I always felt one of the big problems with the HSS in recent years was ,the cost to travel on it for cars it was always way more expensive to travel on than the normal ferry, and it only operating only one journey each way,giving poor choice..the tourist market is a big chunk of business during the spring ,summer season and can be very profitable for the operators . So interesting times ahead , and it can only be good for competition.

[PaddyL]

What ship would be used on a Dun Laoghaire route?

[Stena explorer]

It would be a fast craft ,if it was p&o  it could be the hsc express, thelinkspan etc is all in place as the stena lynx used to plough the route.

[PaddyL]

Sure P&O are handing the Express back to her owners and they are selling her??

[Stena explorer]

With the rumours that p&o are going to pull the  express from Troon at end of season ,could there be a possibility they are going to move it to. Dun laoghaire for a season or two to see how it goes ,it would give them a presence on the Dublin Holyhead  central corridor , and  there is money to be made in the summer season

[PaddyL]

With the rumours that p&o are going to pull the  express from Troon at end of season ,could there be a possibility they are going to move it to. Dun laoghaire for a season or two to see how it goes ,it would give them a presence on the Dublin Holyhead  central corridor , and  there is money to be made in the summer season

Not going to happen. P&O told staff yesterday that the charter of the ship is not going to be renewed after October.

[Steven]

With the rumours that p&o are going to pull the  express from Troon at end of season ,could there be a possibility they are going to move it to. Dun laoghaire for a season or two to see how it goes ,it would give them a presence on the Dublin Holyhead  central corridor , and  there is money to be made in the summer season

No chance.  She is being returned and I believe is already for sale.  Her return has been on the cards for some time tbh, now it is official.  It is going to be very hard to make the numbers add up for a seasonal service I'm afraid, especially with an ageing fast craft.

Interesting you say there are two company's interested  in operating out of Dun laoghaire in 2016' anyone any clues to who they are?.  Anyway there is the potential for 250,000 passangers to use the service in the April -September  season, for the average motorist,  it is not that difficult to get to Dun laoghaire  (15 minutes off peak from junction 16 on m50 cherrywood to dunlaoghaire , even a few minutes less if you get a run of the traffic lights ,also with rail and bus station 50 meters away it's very handy for foot passangers, only problem is trying to sinc ferry times in with holyhead rail departures ,but could easily be done , and of course the big one , To Have A very Competive Price. And good advertising and anything is possible.  I always felt one of the big problems with the HSS in recent years was ,the cost to travel on it for cars it was always way more expensive to travel on than the normal ferry, and it only operating only one journey each way,giving poor choice..the tourist market is a big chunk of business during the spring ,summer season and can be very profitable for the operators . So interesting times ahead , and it can only be good for competition.

Again, the cost of running a fast craft is going to make it extremely difficult to compete on price and even break even, never mind make a profit. There is a reason they have almost disappeared from Northern European waters.  That is before factoring in the reaction of the 2 existing operators as well, who have the security of a year round service (and the bonus of significant revenue from freight operations), and already well established marketing machines and customer bases.  As for rail traffic, Holyhead station does not have the services (and capacity on those services) to make a significant additional contribution to passenger numbers and handles less than 250,000 passengers a year - many of which are commuters I believe, rather than ferry connected travellers.  Its much quicker, cheaper, and less hassle to jump on a plane anyways than to get a ferry and board a train.

[PaddyL]

I was told that the Express costs £3000 a crossing in fuel alone.  When you consider there are crew costs, shore staff, port fees, daily charter fees etc on top it's hard to see how she could possibly make money even in peak summer. 

[Steven]

I was told that the Express costs £3000 a crossing in fuel alone.  When you consider there are crew costs, shore staff, port fees, daily charter fees etc on top it's hard to see how she could possibly make money even in peak summer.

I've also heard that they may be serving a lot of Salmon and Herring onboard next year....

[Fast Ferry Fan]

12 months ago Dun Laoghaire had a car ferry terminal ... now it has a concert venue...

http://www.promsonthepier.ie/location/

[Stena explorer]

They held a circus there after Christmas, I think a fairground is due end of June and they have another concert type event on August bank holiday The Beatyard,. The cruise ferry plans will be submitted to an board plannala by next week , then allow up to 4 months for a decision,most likely by early October..and their decision is final ,no further objections allowed ,that is if they are given the go ahead.my gut feeling is they will get the go ahead.a few against it ,but overall the majority saying give it a go ,it can only help the town. It's like the new liberary a lot of people knocking it..(I know it is a bit of a monstrosity) but over 10,000 people going through its doors every week ,shows it sure is being used.

[20knots]

As for rail traffic, Holyhead station does not have the services (and capacity on those services) to make a significant additional contribution to passenger numbers and handles less than 250,000 passengers a year - many of which are commuters I believe, rather than ferry connected travellers.  Its much quicker, cheaper, and less hassle to jump on a plane anyways than to get a ferry and board a train.

Holyhead has a spread of rail services across the day averaging one an hour each way so it's usually not a major issue if one misses a train. Measures are being looked at to address the serious capacity issues on the Arriva Trains Wales network.

In fact in the last year two notable improvements have been made to ship-rail connectivity at the port: the introduction of a mid-morning Manchester-Holyhead direct train & lunchtime return. And last month's timetable change saw Virgin Trains introduce a 12.43 Holyhead-London service. These services connect with the late-morning arrivals and early-afternoon departures of the Stena Adventurer & Ulysses.

The coach services between the port and London/Manchester/Leeds have mopped up the lion's share of the overnight foot passenger traffic.

I agree that it is quicker by air for the majority of journeys (except North Wales to Dublin) but not always cheaper or less hassle.
I know someone in one of the major English cities who nearly always flew to Dublin but now nearly always comes via Holyhead. As for cheaper I've found that while the flight itself can be inexpensive for a fair comparison the cost needs to include travelling to/from the airport. That can often make it more costly than taking the ferry and train. Throw some luggage into the equation and the ferry and train wins hands down. Not everyone wants or needs to complete the journey as quickly as possible and have no problem with a few extra hours journey time for a more relaxing journey offering an opportunity to work, relax and eat throughout to the heart of their destination.

[Dee]

I was in dun laoghaire on Saturday for the first time since the hss finished up. I saw site notices posted along th East pier, for the cruise berths plan. Is there here any further news about another potential shipping company running a service from Dun laoghaire ?