Holyhead

[A83]

My wife and daughter travelled sail rail from Bath to Holyhead last Sunday. Train connections worked well and they arrived at 11pm to await the 2.40 am Ulyssess sailing. They found the train station pretty empty and under [re]construction. They eventually found their way to the ferry terminal where the cafe and ticket offices are located. All was closed and nobody was about apart from one old guy who tried to annoy my daughter and was given short shrift. Eventually staff appeared in the ticket offices and the process of booking in commenced. There were very few [less than 10 ] sail rail passengers.

I suppose the point of the post is to emphasise how challenging the ferry terminal is at night for women travelling alone. Surely the cafe should be open as a public facility, there should be evident security and the place should be welcoming. In an age when we are being encouraged to travel by ship and train for environmental reasons it is easy to see why people, particularly women, do not find it attractive.

[Kieran]

I imagine the cafe is run as a commercial operation, not a public service. If the numbers are that small, you can see why they would close it at night.

That said, lack of security is surprising, let me see if I can find a contact for the port.

[Niall]

I imagine the cafe is run as a commercial operation, not a public service. If the numbers are that small, you can see why they would close it at night.

That said, lack of security is surprising, let me see if I can find a contact for the port.

There is a shuttle bus that takes foot passengers from the main terminal building directly onto the ferry

[Shipmate]

I have experienced that terminal late at night a few times over the years. It is very grim, very uncomfortable seats and never anything open or any security. Not very warm either.

[Alan G]

I imagine the cafe is run as a commercial operation, not a public service. If the numbers are that small, you can see why they would close it at night.

That said, lack of security is surprising, let me see if I can find a contact for the port.

It really is not surprising at all, there is never any staff presence in the waiting are, particularly late at night when everything is closed. What security staff there is are behind check-in for the sometimes security theatre nonsense and nothing else. Anyone getting harassed in the terminal itself are very much on their own and always have been.

That shop has never been open at night and that is going back 20+ years and half a dozen owners of the franchise.

TBH the poster's family got off quite lightly, that sailing can have a specific group of the absolute dregs of Irish society on it, tanked up and causing trouble.

The late trains from Chester into north Wales are often far worse, particularly on Friday and Saturday nights.

My advice for those considering this route is to avoid the 02.15/02.40 sailings from Holyhead and the 20.30/20.55 from Dublin, the latter mainly because of the 4 hour wait for the first train. The 02.15 from Dublin is always quiet and has decent onward trains from Holyhead, it's the only night sailing I'd take as a foot passenger.

[drrummer]

Have to agree.  I don't think it woud take much to have even the meagerist of offerings from a coffee shop.  They don't have to provide full service, but the presence of a manned coffee shop with hot drinks and such on offer would certainly make the experience more appealing.

Clealry neither the ferry companies nor Welsh authorities appreciate the meagre pittance that foot passengers bring.  It makes me wonder if the only reason they accept foot passengers is down to some sort of legal obligation to provide it as part of a public service ?

Their money is clearly in freight.  They don't even appreciate car or motorbike traffic, as is evident from the unusual pricing structure.

[A83]

If there were better services at Holyhead plus better train links in the UK and good links from Dublin port to the centre of the city would it be possible to increase foot passenger numbers?

There must be a fair proportion of people [10-20% of the population?] who a] don't like flying, b] want to travel overland for environmental reasons and c] simply prefer boat and train travel.

So my question is; could Dublin-Holyhead-London and Dublin-Holyhead-Manchester become viable passenger routes if a little investment and marketing effort were put into them?

[ccs]

If there were better services at Holyhead plus better train links in the UK and good links from Dublin port to the centre of the city would it be possible to increase foot passenger numbers?

There must be a fair proportion of people [10-20% of the population?] who a] don't like flying, b] want to travel overland for environmental reasons and c] simply prefer boat and train travel.

So my question is; could Dublin-Holyhead-London and Dublin-Holyhead-Manchester become viable passenger routes if a little investment and marketing effort were put into them?

I agree completely but for some unknown reason there seems to be very little will amongst ferry/rail companies to promote these services.

[Ritchie333]

The terminal at Holyhead is run down and badly needs a lick of paint in some areas, particularly the "<- Way Out Ship ->" signs that look untouched since the 1980s. The foot passenger terminal isn't integrated like Dublin, so you have to wait around for the connecting bus that drives you onto the ferry.

Also, this isn't advertised anywhere, but all long-distance trains to Holyhead come in or leave on Platform 1, which is a 5-10 minute walk to the ferry terminal. Although it might look like the platform is right next door, that's platforms 2-3 which are no good (unless you're coming from Bangor or Colwyn Bay). Watch out for that if you've got luggage.

The one time I used the overnight service from here, we couldn't find anything to do in Holyhead. There's a McDonalds a short walk from the station, but it shuts at midnight, about an hour before you can check in. We just sat in the crew bus we were in and fell asleep until we were called to embark. Perhaps there's a hotel bar somewhere (we found one in Pembroke Dock and stopped in around midnight for a quick drink before getting the overnight ferry to Rosslare) but if there is, I don't know about it.

The Celtic Gateway Bridge is quite nice though, and at least means there is some scenery to look at.

[drrummer]

If there were better services at Holyhead plus better train links in the UK and good links from Dublin port to the centre of the city would it be possible to increase foot passenger numbers?

There must be a fair proportion of people [10-20% of the population?] who a] don't like flying, b] want to travel overland for environmental reasons and c] simply prefer boat and train travel.

So my question is; could Dublin-Holyhead-London and Dublin-Holyhead-Manchester become viable passenger routes if a little investment and marketing effort were put into them?

I don't think it would even take much in the way of financial investment.  For a small increase in foot passenger fares, the ferry companies could provide a connecting bus service to  Crewe / Chester.  Particularly between midnight and 0430. 

Further to this, offering some level of guarantee for conneting at the other side of Britain would be good.  For months, I've been trying to make a conenction from Dublin to Amsterdam (or Belgium, NL, Germany) on a reasonable schedule.

In theory, you could leave Dublin at midnight and be on the maindland by about lunchtime. 

[jpwoodh]

There is no competition for foot and car passengers on the Irish Sea, which is visible from the pricing.  Compare to the UK - France and Netherlands pricing.

A cost duopoly exists between Irish ferries and Stena.  It needs a third entrant from Dublin to Holyhead to shake things up.

[Niall]

There is no competition for foot and car passengers on the Irish Sea, which is visible from the pricing.  Compare to the UK - France and Netherlands pricing.

A cost duopoly exists between Irish ferries and Stena.  It needs a third entrant from Dublin to Holyhead to shake things up.

The route is already over capacity with no sailing of Adventurer on Sunday nights

[jpwoodh]

It's overcapacity at the fares they charge, I fully agree. If they reduced the pricing, user numbers would soar.

[Ritchie333]

As I think several of us realise, most people are not self-confessed transport nerds like me who consider travelling along the North Wales Coast Line a pleasurable activity (though just about everybody can be made to go "ooh look at that" past Conwy Castle). They also don't think the epitome of travel to Ireland is sitting on the Irish Ferries Ulyssees Martello Club Class with a nice glass of white wine. So they fly instead.

There's also the consideration that thanks to B-you know what, there's no as much demand for freight over the Ireland - UK "land bridge", which is what drives demand for ferries. So, to some extent, I think we can be grateful that the concept of Sail Rail exists at all.