Irish sea fares

[trickyfeet]

Hi new member here. I was hoping someone could explain to me why sea fares are so expensive over to Ireland? Is it because the ships are so expensive to run when compared to others (I am comparing Stena's price on the Irish sea to their prices on the North Sea to Holland) or is it just that customers on the Irish sea are being taken for mugs?.

[loch garman]

Its a duopoly  :)

[trickyfeet]

Thought that may be the answer......Can't beat being taken for mugs!

[giftgrub]

Hi new member here. I was hoping someone could explain to me why sea fares are so expensive over to Ireland? Is it because the ships are so expensive to run when compared to others (I am comparing Stena's price on the Irish sea to their prices on the North Sea to Holland) or is it just that customers on the Irish sea are being taken for mugs?.

Had a look taking random dates this month, sailing Harwich Hoek at night and back during the day comes in at 257 sterling for Premium versus 274 euro same dates Rosslare Fishguard, that would be cheaper on Irish Sea.

[HSS]

I have booked H-D Premium return in Feb on SFX, price £298.00 Sterling. Same dates/times, Premium return, Harwich to the Hook of Holland on Britannica/Hollandica is £251.00 Sterling.

[NathanBrady]

Supply and demand!

[Steven]

This has been covered before numerous times in numerous places.  Comparing a route such as Harwich - Hoek to Irish Sea services is like comparing apples to loaves of bread!  Why?

1. The volumes involved, particularly freight.  Britannica and Hollandica carry some 5.5km of freight per sailing - in lane metre terms thats almost 3 Superfast X's each.  Thats in addition to the capacity offered by the Harwich to Europoort ships.  1 sailing = 1 lot of fuel, etc.
2. The ships involved. Carrying more per sailing reduces the cost to transport each unit overall.  So long as the demand is there to fill the ships, which it is.
3. Its a totally different marketplace.  Stena Line operate no less than 4 routes from England to Holland for freight customers. 2 of those are from Harwich to Rotterdam/Hoek.   Thats a lot of demand thats being filled.  Thats in addition to the services operated by other operators such as DFDS, P&O, etc to Holland and Belgium.

As for talk of a duopoly - there are 3 passenger operators on the central corridor (Stena, Irish Ferries, P&O) and an additional freight only operator (Seatruck).  The majority of year-round revenue comes from freight after all.  The operators will have all figured out a balanced pricing model based on freight and passenger demand - bear in mind that the more passengers that are carried then the higher costs get as well. 

[Steven]

This is also a factor, given other crossings are suffering (particularly at the hands of low-cost airlines)

tena Line recorded 16% year-on-year growth in passenger numbers on its North Sea ferry route between Harwich, UK, and the Hook of Holland, Netherlands in 2015.

The company carried 698,000 passengers on its twice daily crossings between Harwich and the Hook of Holland – an additional 97,000 passengers to the 601,000 carried in 2014. According to Stena Line, this 'widely outperforms' the general trend in the British outbound ferry market, which saw a 1% decrease in passengers travelling to the continent from mainland Britain in 2015.

"We have witnessed a sustained period of growth over the last few years and it is very positive to see this continue in 2015," said Lars Olsson, general manager at Stena Line UK. "Whereas there is no denying that Stena Line did benefit from the disruptions on the Dover straits, we do offer an exceptional product and it is gratifying to see that the new customers we have attracted to Stena Line seem to be staying with us. Our two Superferries continue to impress old and new customers alike who are continuing to discover our fantastic onboard offering."

http://www.cruiseandferry.net/articles/stena-line-records-16-yearly-growth-on-north-sea-route

[loch garman]

sorry i meant duopoly in relation to ireland to wales services...its a great position for stena and irish ferries to be in...

[NathanBrady]

sorry i meant duopoly in relation to ireland to wales services...its a great position for stena and irish ferries to be in...

That's like saying Stena have a monopoly on Fishguard to Rosslare!

[awaityourreply]

sorry i meant duopoly in relation to ireland to wales services...its a great position for stena and irish ferries to be in...

That's like saying Stena have a monopoly on Fishguard to Rosslare!

I think loch garman was probably referring to Ireland & South Wales crossings more than the other ferry routes:
(in reference to his duopoly comment on Ireland to Wales services)

Fishguard to Rosslare route is operated by Stena Line (formerly it was owned by Sealink/British Rail all those years ago)
Versus
Pembroke Dock to Rosslare route is operated by it's competitor, Irish Ferries (formerly it was owned by B+I Line all those years ago)

Both of these operators have managed to co-exist up until now and they tend to have similar pricing - slight price differences but nothing too dramatic. However; it's hard to know how long more this arrangement will continue as things are changing rapidly in the world and external factors may force changes at some point in the future. It's not a matter of IF, it may just be a matter of WHEN

[PaddyL]

Steven's reply is largely how I would see things.

Many routes have been loss-making for years and the operators finding it tough.

That said, I wonder if there may be a logic in more real special offers to make ferry travel seem like a cheap and fun thing to do.

[Steven]

sorry i meant duopoly in relation to ireland to wales services...its a great position for stena and irish ferries to be in...

That's like saying Stena have a monopoly on Fishguard to Rosslare!

I think loch garman was probably referring to Ireland & South Wales crossings more than the other ferry routes:
(in reference to his duopoly comment on Ireland to Wales services)

Fishguard to Rosslare route is operated by Stena Line (formerly it was owned by Sealink/British Rail all those years ago)
Versus
Pembroke Dock to Rosslare route is operated by it's competitor, Irish Ferries (formerly it was owned by B+I Line all those years ago)

Both of these operators have managed to co-exist up until now and they tend to have similar pricing - slight price differences but nothing too dramatic. However; it's hard to know how long more this arrangement will continue as things are changing rapidly in the world and external factors may force changes at some point in the future. It's not a matter of IF, it may just be a matter of WHEN

Usually the term "duopoly" *ugh* is bandied about in relation to the central corridor as we have 2 operators operation an identical route.  However as I was trying to point out that doesn't take in to account the wider market or the fact that much of the traffic bound for Liverpool has an ultimate destination similar to traffic bound for Holyhead.  The authorities certainly thought so when they blocked Stena's takeover of P&O's Liverpool to Dublin operations!

It is very easy for us to look at the services which carry significant numbers of passengers in isolation, but it is important to remember that passengers only make up a part of the ferry company's revenue stream - a part that has unfortunately been declining in recent years due to many factors.  If you remove the freight then services start to become unviable.  Ticket prices aren't just picked out of the air, they are calculated taking into account a lot of different factors.  Special offers do exist, unfortunately the additional revenue streams that where available in the past to fund such offers (such as duty free for example) no longer are :(.  Perhaps the various tourist organisations and ferry companies could work closer together to work out more offers, but would the additional trade generated be worth the significant amount of hassle.  Unfortunately its not just a case of rushing out a press release and an advert with a headline price on it - theres a lot more involved (as there is in any business selling things).

[NathanBrady]

If you don't like the price, don't pay it!

If people don't travel then either the ferry companies will lower their prices, OR just stop offering or reduce  passenger services.

[trickyfeet]

Thanks for all the comments. Some informative and interesting things to think about, particularly scale of economy with the bigger ships etc.
Interestingly I notice that some of this would be offset by the fact that Holland is almost twice the distance from the U.K as Ireland is and the ships would be more expensive to buy and service(loan costs not maintenance).
Booked a crossing to Ireland on Good Friday for a week H/Head to Dublin£401....Same dates to Holland and back£245
Not sure where the demand argument sits, if you are trying to entice customers back from the airlines then surely prices should be cut to the bone and not raised just because demand is low(squeeze the life out of the existing customers) as the football clubs are finding out at the moment.
Duopoly....Funny how I.F and Stena prices are almost exactly the same even though they run different ships with different costs associated with them and different costs to purchase/run them.
Don't like it don't use it?.....Most of my family is scattered around the Emerald Isle so I need to use the ferries as I need the car to traverse the country and as such I am the captive market I suspect the ferry companies now know they have I.E if you are going to fly you would have done so cough up.
Still have been doing this all my life going back to the Holyhead 1 days in the sixties so maybe I should just smile and get on with it