Irish Ferries - 2016 and beyond

[giftgrub]

New thread for Irish Ferries 2016 fleet deployment and new build/ purchase speculation, if it can keep on topic :

Last thread from Irish Ferries Fleet Movements:

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IFPete
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Re: Irish Ferries Fleet movements
« Reply #735 on: September 12, 2015, 03:54:42 PM »
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There appears to be no further news re fleet movements,

Was looking through Ferries 2016 and noticed TT Lines Twins Peter Pan and Nils Holgersson would be very suitable for Dublin - Holyhead and Dublin - Cherbourg

171 Trailers - 744 Passengers 600 Cabin Berths.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2015, 01:34:05 PM by IFPete »
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Re: Irish Ferries Fleet movements
« Reply #736 on: September 13, 2015, 08:30:17 PM »
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Lovely vessels. They'd look great on the Irish Sea. They look a bit older than they are! They have that practical shape, something that I like about the Isle of Inishmore. Plenty of lane meters as well.
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PaddyL
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Re: Irish Ferries Fleet movements
« Reply #737 on: September 14, 2015, 01:26:47 PM »
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Quote from: Fast Ferry Fan on August 31, 2015, 08:30:47 AM
Any indications as to how much extra traffic the Swift had picked up in the absence of Explorer?

Irish Ferries have a delay in publicly publishing passenger stats but indications are that although far from all of the Dun Laoghaire passenger trade has transferred to the Dublin route, Stena's net loss is a no brainer compared to the savings from not operating the HSS and operating an additional port.  Getting rid of the HSS is clearly the no-brainer it looked.
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IFPete
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Re: Irish Ferries Fleet movements
« Reply #738 on: September 14, 2015, 06:41:52 PM »
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HSS loads could have gone to Superfast X, Epsilon, Swift and the airlines.
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DublinPeter
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Re: Irish Ferries Fleet movements
« Reply #739 on: September 15, 2015, 09:44:34 PM »
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Quote from: PaddyL on September 14, 2015, 01:26:47 PM
Quote from: Fast Ferry Fan on August 31, 2015, 08:30:47 AM
Any indications as to how much extra traffic the Swift had picked up in the absence of Explorer?

Irish Ferries have a delay in publicly publishing passenger stats but indications are that although far from all of the Dun Laoghaire passenger trade has transferred to the Dublin route, Stena's net loss is a no brainer compared to the savings from not operating the HSS and operating an additional port.  Getting rid of the HSS is clearly the no-brainer it looked.

This is off topic a bit but just in reply to PaddyL.  The reasons why HSS Explorer was withdrawn are clear and obvious (although obviously sad).  The reasons she wasn't replaced a few years ago and Stena left Dun Laoghaire and surrendered that share to IF and the airlines are a seperate matter.  More to it than cashflow & never forget the importance of market share in a competitive marketplace and nobody is more than surprised than ICG Plc at being given this share gift.

Pete

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Steven
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Re: Irish Ferries Fleet movements
« Reply #740 on: September 16, 2015, 01:06:49 PM »
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Quote from: DublinPeter on September 15, 2015, 09:44:34 PM
Quote from: PaddyL on September 14, 2015, 01:26:47 PM
Quote from: Fast Ferry Fan on August 31, 2015, 08:30:47 AM
Any indications as to how much extra traffic the Swift had picked up in the absence of Explorer?

Irish Ferries have a delay in publicly publishing passenger stats but indications are that although far from all of the Dun Laoghaire passenger trade has transferred to the Dublin route, Stena's net loss is a no brainer compared to the savings from not operating the HSS and operating an additional port.  Getting rid of the HSS is clearly the no-brainer it looked.

This is off topic a bit but just in reply to PaddyL.  The reasons why HSS Explorer was withdrawn are clear and obvious (although obviously sad).  The reasons she wasn't replaced a few years ago and Stena left Dun Laoghaire and surrendered that share to IF and the airlines are a seperate matter.  More to it than cashflow & never forget the importance of market share in a competitive marketplace and nobody is more than surprised than ICG Plc at being given this share gift.

Pete

Pete

The loss in market share has been minimal for Stena going by their figures (which is what Paddy is saying), after all the HSS was making a single round trip for part of the year and even then was nowhere near capacity.  As for ICG being surprised, I highly doubt it.  The withdrawal of the HSS has been on the cards for some time, and well known about within the industry.  ICG have been waiting for Explorer to be withdrawn for years. 

I'd say withdrawing a craft which cost a small fortune to run and which year on year has been carrying less traffic for some time was a no brainer as well.  You make a huge assumption that running another craft from Dun Laoghaire would be profitable/viable.  in any case, it makes commercial sense to consolidate the operation to one port and two (potentially three) conventional vessels.  As I have said before, you only need to look at the decline in fast craft numbers in Northern European waters to see that these craft make less and less sense as time goes on.  If Stena wanted to add another ship, then it makes more sense for them to do so from the same port rather than continuing with a split operation with one of the ports being less than ideal for their core traffic. 

With regard to ICG, time will tell with what happens.   I'd suggest though that speculation as to suitable tonnage should go in its own thread, rather than here.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2015, 01:25:12 PM by Steven »
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DublinPeter
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Re: Irish Ferries Fleet movements
« Reply #741 on: September 16, 2015, 09:37:00 PM »
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Damn, off topic again but I'll be brief and won't post about this again!

For clarity, nobody was surprised that HSS was withdrawn obviously.  What ICG were surprised by was that she wasn't replaced (whatever port that was to). Three years ago the business was all about consolidation but not now.  Have to think like a PLC (or indeed a sphere!).  Growth can either be organic or manufactured, when the two come together then shareholders are happy.  Cashflow can wait - all about the share.   

From the horses mouth the worry within the markets is that while Stena and IF have their Mexican standoff, they get sideswiped by another operator who lets say is in an expansionist frame of mind and is willing to throw money to build share.  Expect one of the duopoly to blink and the other to follow sharpish sooner than you think.

No assumptions.  When in doubt, ask a stockbroker and a shipping corporate man :)

Pete
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Irish Ferries Enthusiasts | Forum » Irish Ferries Enthusiasts » The News Board » Irish Ferries Fleet movements

[Normandy]

I guess If I was in Irish Ferries shoes I would like to see expansion

Dublin - Holyhead
I guess short term look to get the IOM up to Dublin to replace Epilson, maintaining the Ulysses and Swift. Until a modern sister ship to Ulysses can be built and introduced and then operate just the two conventional ships.


Rosslare - Pembroke
I guess charter a ship for this route to have about 2000 lane meters and a pc of around 1200. The charter to cover till such time as IOM is free to return to route from Dublin.



Ireland -France
Short term continue to operate Oscar wilde and place Elipson as a year round freight ship on the route with a test of the waters on a Ireland spain service. Longer term have two sister ships operate the route, with one over the winter to facilitate refits. I guess 2500 lane meters and about 1200 pc

Any thoughts guys??

[IFPete]

I would see Epsilon and Oscar Wilde on ireland - France in 2016 with a charter ship on Rosslare Pembroke.

[ferryfan]

2016 sailing schedule for Ireland/France shows no change to vessels on either Ireland/France route.

[Steven]

I've said all along, if Epsilon stays she'll end up operating solely to France, and I'm sticking by that.  However, I'm still not convinced she will stay with ICG in the longer term.  Particularly if her owners want her back, which it has been suggested in Italy may be the case.

RE: Holyhead, ideally another new build to operate opposite Ulysses will be ordered.  Epsilon is adequate, but not a long-term solution IMO.  For Rosslare, I could see IoI moving North if a suitable replacement for her is found.  She is a bit big after all for year round service and more of a match to the big U than Epsilon. 

On paper at least, Swift should have a few years left, but it would definitely be more cost effective to replace her capacity (and Epsilon) with a larger pax capacity conventional ship.  Less fuel, 1 set of crew instead of two, etc, etc.

[ferryfan]

2016 sailing schedule still not announced. IF facebook's page has had a constant stream of requests over the last few weeks, there was  apromise from IF that the schedule would be released (in 10 days) but that was a few weeks ago and they have now asked people interested to provide email etc.
Stena have had their schedule up for months so is it that IF are contemplating some alteration to their schedule for next year?

[Cillian]

I remember reading somewhere that there was some talk about Irish Ferries operating the Swift out of Dun Laoghaire. I wonder would that have anything to do with the delay

[giftgrub]

I remember reading somewhere that there was some talk about Irish Ferries operating the Swift out of Dun Laoghaire. I wonder would that have anything to do with the delay

Unlikely, would have to use  former Lynx berth and bus crew back to Dublin Port to sleep on Ulysses overnight, also need to staff the terminal, why add these costs to the business ?

[ferryfan]

The Dublin Cherbourg schedule for 2016 runs only upto the return leg on the 6th November 2016. As far as I can gather the 3 year lease on Epsilon will be up around this time.

[Steven]

I remember reading somewhere that there was some talk about Irish Ferries operating the Swift out of Dun Laoghaire. I wonder would that have anything to do with the delay

Current indications are that nobody will be operating anything out of Dun Laoghaire any time soon. 

[Cillian]

Booking is now available, however it seems that the Epsilon's last sailing on the Holyhead route is Saturday, November 5th.

[Chris2016]

Hi there , I travelled on Isle of Inishmore last Thursday 07/01/16 , I haven't stepped foot on the Isle of Inishmore Since its transfer in 2001 and I have to say it is in great condition I really enjoyed my day trip on it . Also on the 07/01/16 The Jonathan swift didn't sail no Surprise there . The Inishmore took a great load over and Back with no problems . I really miss the Inishmore on the Dublin - Holyhead route I hope it comes back soon. Yesterday I done a day trip on the Stena Adventurer / Superfast x and they are much more Comfortable than any fast ferry . there is lots to do on board . Irish ferries need to get rid of the Explison and Swift from the Dublin - Holyhead route Send them both to rosslare until they get a Replacement for the Isle of inishmore . Because stena are leading the Dublin - Holyhead route with to lovely Cruise Ferries in My opinion .

[NathanBrady]

I think Epsilon will go this year and be replaced with something more suited to the Holyhead route.  If Oscar Wilde was replaced with something with more vehicle capacity it would also give Irish Ferries more options.  If Isle of Inishmore returned to Dublin could she be used to France if cabins are added?

[Collision-course]

If the Isle of Innishmore has a bow door with 3.5 meter significant wave clearance (and I suspect it does) then there is no reason it could not operate to France

[giftgrub]

But IOI has very few cabins, meaning a transfer to a French route requiring a major rebuild, something IF don't like doing.