irish sea or north sea
Quote from: market knowledge on September 09, 2016, 02:53:40 PM
irish sea or north sea
Can't see North Sea as no appropriate routes?
Current reliable skeet suggests first two will go to Belfast - Birkenhead. Belfast - Cairnryan also likely to get two and one will replace Stena Superfast X at Holyhead.
That said, there is such a long lead in time that much remains to be seen. Given how busy Birkenhead is, one would imagine that Stena would take an alternative solution if one arose sooner rather than later.
Quote from: PaddyL on September 09, 2016, 03:51:07 PM
Quote from: market knowledge on September 09, 2016, 02:53:40 PM
irish sea or north sea
Can't see North Sea as no appropriate routes?
Current reliable skeet suggests first two will go to Belfast - Birkenhead. Belfast - Cairnryan also likely to get two and one will replace Stena Superfast X at Holyhead.
That said, there is such a long lead in time that much remains to be seen. Given how busy Birkenhead is, one would imagine that Stena would take an alternative solution if one arose sooner rather than later.
Must say I agree here. Birkenhead almost seems a given - they could do with the new ships now if I'm honest! Replacement of all 3 superfasts would seem wise/likely as well - even after their conversions they still aren't efficient ships to operate, and VII/VIII are only chartered - for what I believe is quite a considerable sum.
I do wonder though about Stena Danica. Perhaps one (or more) of the options could be bound for Gothenburg? Of course, we still know very little about how the vessels will be configured. Until we do we can only guess and rely on rumours.
While I keep reading people saying the Birkenhead to Belfast route is a 'cert' to receive two of these new vessels, much could change between now and 2019...
Quote from: RorieLen on October 04, 2016, 04:02:24 PM
While I keep reading people saying the Birkenhead to Belfast route is a 'cert' to receive two of these new vessels, much could change between now and 2019...
I agree. Until it's definitely happening, it's no cert. 2019 is quite a long time for a route to continue "at capacity". I keep thinking the Finnlines Star Class would be great replacements if any of them were available, which I doubt.
Quote from: Steven on October 03, 2016, 03:09:51 PM
Quote from: PaddyL on September 09, 2016, 03:51:07 PM
Quote from: market knowledge on September 09, 2016, 02:53:40 PM
irish sea or north sea
Can't see North Sea as no appropriate routes?
Current reliable skeet suggests first two will go to Belfast - Birkenhead. Belfast - Cairnryan also likely to get two and one will replace Stena Superfast X at Holyhead.
That said, there is such a long lead in time that much remains to be seen. Given how busy Birkenhead is, one would imagine that Stena would take an alternative solution if one arose sooner rather than later.
Must say I agree here. Birkenhead almost seems a given - they could do with the new ships now if I'm honest! Replacement of all 3 superfasts would seem wise/likely as well - even after their conversions they still aren't efficient ships to operate, and VII/VIII are only chartered - for what I believe is quite a considerable sum.
I do wonder though about Stena Danica. Perhaps one (or more) of the options could be bound for Gothenburg? Of course, we still know very little about how the vessels will be configured. Until we do we can only guess and rely on rumours.
Can't see them on the North Sea either, Hollandica and Britannica are much bigger in any case and, I think, the Killingholme pair.
I agree with Steven about Birkenhead and I think the other two will replace the old gal Danica and allow the Jutlandica to be sent elsewhere in the fleet. Gothenburg-Frederikshavn is still, I believe, a big earner for them and was the original Stena Line route.
From the artists impressions, I see the new ships are going to be double deck loading. I guess that will mean shore works at Birkenhead and Belfast for them and construction of new ramps Gothenburg and Frederikshavn, replacing the side loading ramps there.
Matt
Do we know if the new ships are going to have the extra height clearance as desired by users of the North Corridor? That may tell us something.
I can't see the new ships being deployed on the Belfast - Cairnryan run. My hunch is two will go to Birkenhead and two will go to Holyhead.
Stena Adventurer could replace Stena Jutlandica, which could be transfered to operate in lieu of Stena Danica. Superfast X could replace Stena Nautica / Stena Europe.
Quote from: Davy Jones on October 06, 2016, 03:49:35 PM
Do we know if the new ships are going to have the extra height clearance as desired by users of the North Corridor? That may tell us something.
I would expect so, given the ships are supposed to be designed with the flexibility to operate across the Stena Line route network. Surely it would make sense for Stena to plan this into the design (or allow for easy adaptation of the design), especially given 'Stenability'? Time will tell of course, but personally I'd be very surprised if they didn't meet the free height requirements of the NI routes. Same goes for double deck loading - I'm sure its entirely possible they will be able able to load at single level using internal ramps if deployed on the Birkenhead run for example. After all, the time is there to do so in the turnaround.
Quote from: TC on October 06, 2016, 07:54:19 PM
I can't see the new ships being deployed on the Belfast - Cairnryan run. My hunch is two will go to Birkenhead and two will go to Holyhead.
Stena Adventurer could replace Stena Jutlandica, which could be transfered to operate in lieu of Stena Danica. Superfast X could replace Stena Nautica / Stena Europe.
As things stand, X couldn't replace Nautica without major changes. During Nautica's refit period Stena Gothica sailed from Halmstad instead of Varberg due to her size, and she is over 30m shorter thanthe Stena Superfasts! Remember, Nautica herself is less than 135m long, as opposed to Stena Superfast X which is over 203m long! These two ships illustrate the massive growth in size of the tonnage on the central corridor over the past couple if decades pretty well IMHO. Of course X is far from the biggest ship on the corridor either at present!
Why would they replace Adventurer with one of the new ships with less lane meterage? The central corridor route is growing is it not?
Looking at it logically, these ships will go where they're needed - this may or may not be the same routes that are currently crying out for capacity by the time they arrive in 2019/20.
Remember Stena Superfast X has only 2000LM. The new ship that would replace her would be bringing an extra 1000LM. True Stena Adventurer does have an extra 400LM, but there is still an increase of 600LM. I imagine if need be one of the ships could be delivered a little longer to make up for the shortfall.
Stena Adventurer has been in service for 13 years, and the Holyhead route is a stressful operation. An aging vessel vs a brand new one... I'm not saying all new ships come perfect, there can be occasional problems, but it’s a fact as a vessel gets older, it requires more maintenance.
I am not saying the displaced tonnage will be definitely be going on the routes I suggested, but I am sure they can be deployed elsewhere in the Stena network.
Surely it's as much about overall capacity across both ships as the need to have a larger ship sailing at certain times? They need Stena Adventurer's capacity at 2040 ex Dublin and 0230 ex Holyhead from what I can see.
I read that these new ships will be 212 m long so already slightly longer than Adventurer and I would assume anything longer than that would pose problems at Stena's berth in Dublin.
I did ask one of the crew members on the Stena Europe when i took a trip this summer, and he said that probably the Stena Europe along with one of the oldest ferries in Scandinavia which he thinks will be the Stena Danica will be replaced in 2019. But the question is, will they be day or night time ferries??? No specs on how many cabins and beds?
Quote from: TC on October 06, 2016, 07:54:19 PM
I can't see the new ships being deployed on the Belfast - Cairnryan run. My hunch is two will go to Birkenhead and two will go to Holyhead.
Stena Adventurer could replace Stena Jutlandica, which could be transfered to operate in lieu of Stena Danica. Superfast X could replace Stena Nautica / Stena Europe.
This hunch was confirmed by Stena crew to me a while back
Oh... all that it is really interesentig! Finally i find a forum where discuss all of this things about ferries! Thank you for de topic ;D ;D
Quote from: VSFXX on October 09, 2016, 07:17:49 PM
Quote from: TC on October 06, 2016, 07:54:19 PM
I can't see the new ships being deployed on the Belfast - Cairnryan run. My hunch is two will go to Birkenhead and two will go to Holyhead.
Stena Adventurer could replace Stena Jutlandica, which could be transfered to operate in lieu of Stena Danica. Superfast X could replace Stena Nautica / Stena Europe.
This hunch was confirmed by Stena crew to me a while back
One is going to Brittany ferry though so dat can't be rite
Old thread resurrected, since last info posted rumours indicate
E-Flexer 1 to replace Superfast X
E-Flexer 2 to Belfast replace Mersey or Lagan
E-Flexer 3 to Brittany Ferries
E-Flexer 4 to Belfast replace Mersey or Lagan
Options on four more
To be confirmed and likely to be modified versions of first generation possibly E-Flexer +, greater vessel size with potential for either greater Pax/Freight capacity mix allowing replacement for either Danica/Jutlandica, Scandinavica/ Germanica or Spirit/ Vision
Quote from: giftgrub on January 11, 2018, 09:20:20 PM
Old thread resurrected, since last info posted rumours indicate
E-Flexer 1 to replace Superfast X
E-Flexer 2 to Belfast replace Mersey or Lagan
E-Flexer 3 to Brittany Ferries
E-Flexer 4 to Belfast replace Mersey or Lagan
Options on four more
To be confirmed and likely to be modified versions of first generation possibly E-Flexer +, greater vessel size with potential for either greater Pax/Freight capacity mix allowing replacement for either Danica/Jutlandica, Scandinavica/ Germanica or Spirit/ Vision
Sorry, but the bit on options sounds like pure speculation to me based on the age of certain vessels.
Quote from: Steven on January 11, 2018, 09:32:51 PM
Quote from: giftgrub on January 11, 2018, 09:20:20 PM
Old thread resurrected, since last info posted rumours indicate
E-Flexer 1 to replace Superfast X
E-Flexer 2 to Belfast replace Mersey or Lagan
E-Flexer 3 to Brittany Ferries
E-Flexer 4 to Belfast replace Mersey or Lagan
Options on four more
To be confirmed and likely to be modified versions of first generation possibly E-Flexer +, greater vessel size with potential for either greater Pax/Freight capacity mix allowing replacement for either Danica/Jutlandica, Scandinavica/ Germanica or Spirit/ Vision
Sorry, but the bit on options sounds like pure speculation to me based on the age of certain vessels.
There were reported at time of orders options for four more vessels, usually based on experience with builds and market conditions options are likely to be taken if circumstances dictate it is beneficial, given the unique situation as the first major order from Stena with a Chinese shipyard it is obviously speculation if they are going to take up the options or not, however if they do it is likely that they would use the experience of the first four to fine tune the design and at some stage they will have to invest in areas other than the Irish Sea, given this info I would think a modified version of E-Flexer is likely, however they might not take up the options at all, making this irrelevant.
Well, its time for my first post in this forum ;)
I live in Sweden, and there are som rumours thats going at the moment.
The rumour is that Stena Lagan and Stena Mersey will replace Stena Flavia and Scottish Viking on the Nynäshamn (Sweden) - Ventspils (Latvia) route.
Anyone more that have heard that?
That makes a lot of sence. Any Rumours about the replacement of Stena Jutlandica
I have heard similar rumours about Stena Lagan and Stena Mersey replacing Scottish Viking and Stena Flavia.
Why would they replace the Stena Jutlandica though? By all accounts she is very successful on the Goteborg-Fredrikshavn route and carries large amounts of freight.
Both Stena Danica and Jutlandica are of an age that both could be replaced by new tonnage.
Quote from: IFPete on January 26, 2018, 12:26:11 PM
Both Stena Danica and Jutlandica are of an age that both could be replaced by new tonnage.
Stena have said very publicly that the Danica will stick around for a long time yet and have just added a new bar area on her top deck as seen in recent pictures.
The Jutlandica isn't that old and is still very fit for purpose.
Ships don't need replaced because of age provided they are running well and meet all regulations, they will only be replaced if no longer suitable for the traffic on the route.
Quote from: RorieLen on January 25, 2018, 08:02:49 PM
I have heard similar rumours about Stena Lagan and Stena Mersey replacing Scottish Viking and Stena Flavia.
Why would they replace the Stena Jutlandica though? By all accounts she is very successful on the Goteborg-Fredrikshavn route and carries large amounts of freight.
Hold on isn't Stena Horizon being replaced by either Stena Lagan or Stena Mersey at Rosslare. Unless Stena Flavia replaces the Horizon when the time comes.
Better to move the two ships as a pair,
With the competition coming from Irish Ferries and Brittany Ferries maybe Stena will rethink there strategy on Rosslare - Cherbourg,
Quote from: Niall on January 26, 2018, 03:48:58 PM
Quote from: RorieLen on January 25, 2018, 08:02:49 PM
I have heard similar rumours about Stena Lagan and Stena Mersey replacing Scottish Viking and Stena Flavia.
Why would they replace the Stena Jutlandica though? By all accounts she is very successful on the Goteborg-Fredrikshavn route and carries large amounts of freight.
Hold on isn't Stena Horizon being replaced by either Stena Lagan or Stena Mersey at Rosslare. Unless Stena Flavia replaces the Horizon when the time comes.
Where was this ever said? At best it was some sort of rumour among the enthusiast community was it not?!
Quote from: PaddyL on January 26, 2018, 03:00:48 PM
Quote from: IFPete on January 26, 2018, 12:26:11 PM
Both Stena Danica and Jutlandica are of an age that both could be replaced by new tonnage.
Stena have said very publicly that the Danica will stick around for a long time yet and have just added a new bar area on her top deck as seen in recent pictures.
The Jutlandica isn't that old and is still very fit for purpose.
Ships don't need replaced because of age provided they are running well and meet all regulations, they will only be replaced if no longer suitable for the traffic on the route.
The Jutlandica is very fit for her current purpose indeed and caters well for the freight segment on the Goteborg-Fredrikshavn route. The Danica is a different beast altogether and has just had significant money spent on various onboard upgrades to tap into increased demand for mini-cruises.
Quote from: Niall on January 26, 2018, 03:48:58 PM
Quote from: RorieLen on January 25, 2018, 08:02:49 PM
I have heard similar rumours about Stena Lagan and Stena Mersey replacing Scottish Viking and Stena Flavia.
Why would they replace the Stena Jutlandica though? By all accounts she is very successful on the Goteborg-Fredrikshavn route and carries large amounts of freight.
Hold on isn't Stena Horizon being replaced by either Stena Lagan or Stena Mersey at Rosslare. Unless Stena Flavia replaces the Horizon when the time comes.
Further to comments elsewhere that it seems most likely (but again unconfirmed) that the Lagan and Mersey will replace the Flavia and Scottish Viking, I wouldn't even say that the Flavia will replace the Horizon as her accommodation configuration is much more profitable for the Cherbourg route.
Of course this may change depending on how things bottle down with Irish Ferries.
Quote from: PaddyL on January 30, 2018, 10:53:36 AM
Quote from: Niall on January 26, 2018, 03:48:58 PM
Quote from: RorieLen on January 25, 2018, 08:02:49 PM
I have heard similar rumours about Stena Lagan and Stena Mersey replacing Scottish Viking and Stena Flavia.
Why would they replace the Stena Jutlandica though? By all accounts she is very successful on the Goteborg-Fredrikshavn route and carries large amounts of freight.
Hold on isn't Stena Horizon being replaced by either Stena Lagan or Stena Mersey at Rosslare. Unless Stena Flavia replaces the Horizon when the time comes.
Further to comments elsewhere that it seems most likely (but again unconfirmed) that the Lagan and Mersey will replace the Flavia and Scottish Viking, I wouldn't even say that the Flavia will replace the Horizon as her accommodation configuration is much more profitable for the Cherbourg route.
Of course this may change depending on how things bottle down with Irish Ferries.
The recent investment in the Danica will mean she will be on the route until at least 2021/22; this point was made to me by crew on the Scandiavica last April.
Neither ship will be replaced unless there is a sound business case to do so.
Matt
Going off topic here, but
Lagan and Mersey could end up replacing Horizon in Rosslare, offering daily departures to France.
Horizon and Epsilon cost 15,000 US Dollars a day to rent, to Stena and IF respectively, could even see Epsilon in Stena colours when charter with IF ends, Horizon and Epsilon on Rosslare Spain service !
Quote from: giftgrub on January 30, 2018, 08:40:13 PM
Going off topic here, but
Lagan and Mersey could end up replacing Horizon in Rosslare, offering daily departures to France.
Horizon and Epsilon cost 15,000 US Dollars a day to rent, to Stena and IF respectively, could even see Epsilon in Stena colours when charter with IF ends, Horizon and Epsilon on Rosslare Spain service !
Nothing is confirmed yet - not even that the first e-flexers are replacing the Mersey and Lagan.
The suggestion of a 2-ship Rosslare - Cherbourg service will really depend on what happens on the back of ICG's changes to their French service.
As for the suggestion of a Spanish route, let's see how BF fare before getting excited about adding another two ships to such services.
Would there be enough traffic to justify a 2 ship service, especially given the competition from WB Yeats?
Quote from: Davy Jones on January 30, 2018, 09:02:55 PM
Would there be enough traffic to justify a 2 ship service, especially given the competition from WB Yeats?
Exactly. Plus from the autumn the Epsilon will be sailing from Dublin to Cherbourg against the Stena Horizon at Rosslare on the same days.
This is a lot more capacity than the Oscar Wilde was providing and she was sailing on opposite days.
Will market grow? Will traffic move from Rosslare to the Epsilon at Dublin?
ICG have clearly done some research with customers and are confident in their plan but time will tell. Certainly doesn't feel like time (yet) to be talking of Stena expansion on the route.
To be honest a lot could change by 2020, and thats if all 4 vessels are delivered on-time (though AVIC just launched a RoPax for Chinese interests ahead of schedule). Talk of the Birkenhead Visentini's being replaced by eflexers has died down quite a bit now despite the previous Stena announcement about all 4 coming to Belfast - obviously things have changed a lot since that announcement with the acquisition of the 2 Superfast's and the agreement to charter an eflexer to BF anyway. That announcement was made less than a year ago, so perhaps a good demonstration of how quickly things can change!
At the moment it looks most likely the newbuilds will replace Visentini tonnage somewhere, but at the end of the day who really knows? Do Stena really know for sure themselves, or is it a case they'll go to the most suitable routes when completed? They have been designed to be flexible after all. The only vessel we know about for certain is the one going to Brittany Ferries.
ICG aren't stupid. If they are confident enough to put a brand new ship on the Dublin to France route they must have done their research, including talking to their partners in the haulage industry. They obviously feel the demand is there, and to be honest it would also be in line with the shift of traffic patterns north on IE-UK services.
I could be wrong here, but IIRC Horizon is chartered at a decent rate. She fits the route well so would it really make sense to replace her just for the heck of it? Visentini might even decide to cash in and sell her to Stena for all we know anyway.
I think Scandinavia and another 1 for britanny ferrys
Britanny Ferries are taking option 6 for UK Spain.
Five year charter with option to purchase.
https://brittanyferriesnewsroom.com/brittany-ferries-invests-in-two-new-cruise-ferries-for-long-haul-spanish-routes/
Its possible the fleet size will go to 10 or more.
Stena will most likely use these to replace ships in Baltic and perhaps DFDS and P&O might order more for Dover. P&O might even consider them for Dublin - Liverpool.
What about two E-flexers for P&O to replace the Pride of Bruge and Pride of York on the Hull - Zeebrugge route.
Quote from: Andrew White on June 04, 2018, 03:10:21 PM
What about two E-flexers for P&O to replace the Pride of Bruge and Pride of York on the Hull - Zeebrugge route.
And possibly two for Dover Calais !!!
Not impossible, there were lots of rumours last week that P&O were about to place an order with a European yard for two new Dover Calais vessels, given how DFDS have taken An E Flexer for Dover Calais, not too late for P&O to get two built for Dover spec and chartered from Stena RoRo !
e flexer 1 will heading to Holyhead. No2 to Bikenhead, No3 to Brittany Ferries and No5 Birkenhead
Confirmation:
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/stena-line-bring-new-giant-14760036
Quote from: Davy Jones on June 08, 2018, 08:35:41 PM
Confirmation:
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/stena-line-bring-new-giant-14760036
No surprises... but good to have it confirmed. Here's another (better?) overview.
https://www.niferry.co.uk/stena-line-announces-new-ferries-belfast-birkenhead-dublin-holyhead/
Quote from: RorieLen on June 08, 2018, 09:09:29 PM
Quote from: Davy Jones on June 08, 2018, 08:35:41 PM
Confirmation:
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/business-news/stena-line-bring-new-giant-14760036
No surprises... but good to have it confirmed. Here's another (better?) overview.
https://www.niferry.co.uk/stena-line-announces-new-ferries-belfast-birkenhead-dublin-holyhead/
Thanks Rorie, you beat me to it ;).
Great to finally have confirmation of what was suspected for some time. It will certainly be interesting to see how the formula differs between the Dublin vessel and the Birkenhead pair, as well as the DFDS and Brittany Ferries examples. We already know Brittany Ferries are forgoing the separate car deck in lieu of additional passenger accommodation, and I very much doubt DFDS will want so many cabins on a short sea vessel which is on a 10-year charter. Brittany Ferries and DFDS also appear to be looking after their own passenger spaces so we could end up with a series of vessels that look very similar outside but are very different inside. With E-Flexer and the series of RoPax vessels coming out of FSG in the next few years, as enthusiasts we will certainly have a lot to compare!
Quote from: giftgrub on June 04, 2018, 04:42:19 PM
Quote from: Andrew White on June 04, 2018, 03:10:21 PM
What about two E-flexers for P&O to replace the Pride of Bruge and Pride of York on the Hull - Zeebrugge route.
And possibly two for Dover Calais !!!
Not impossible, there were lots of rumours last week that P&O were about to place an order with a European yard for two new Dover Calais vessels, given how DFDS have taken An E Flexer for Dover Calais, not too late for P&O to get two built for Dover spec and chartered from Stena RoRo !
I'm reliably informed that P&O aren't in a position to place/announce an order just yet. They also seem determined to go their own way and I wouldn't be surprised to see something different from them. Likewise with the DFDS E-Flexer, it'll be a different beast to the Stena Line and Brittany Ferries examples. If I had to put money on it I'd say the final two E-Flexer options will go to Stena's Baltic services.