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P&O Fleet Movements(Read 235494 times)
Re: P&O Fleet Movements Reply #45 on: March 18, 2014, 03:37:35 pm
Yes the current situation on the Dublin - Liverpool route shows up the flaws in the current thinking of ferry operators , there is huge potential for a foot passenger service on that route , it has a city-break appeal to a customer base of nearly 6 million people within walking distance of the ferry terminals (well a short bus trip anyway) , in fact I would imagine that if there was a foot passenger service between Dublin and Liverpool it would gain a very large share of the foot passenger traffic currently using Dublin - Holyhead.



Re: P&O Fleet Movements Reply #46 on: March 18, 2014, 08:36:17 pm
Given Norbay and Norbank can only take 114 passengers, I'm sure P&O would rather this capacity was used by drivers accompanying vehicles (especially freight) than foot passengers given how much more lucrative vehicle traffic is as opposed to passenger traffic.  Going by their traffic figures I doubt they would be interested in the very small returns on the investment that would need to be made, given they are heavily laden with freight on their sailings.  Personally I was surprised when they started taking accompanied cars.
Steve in Belfast (suburbia)

Flickr: www.flickr.com/tarbyonline



Re: P&O Fleet Movements Reply #47 on: March 18, 2014, 09:56:47 pm
Whoops!

Quote
P&O Hull to Zeebrugge ferry delayed after dock gate crash


A ferry was forced to return to port and was delayed for almost 12 hours after it hit a dock gate.

P&O Ferries said the Pride of York suffered minor damage as it left the King George lock in Hull for Zeebrugge at 18:30 GMT on Monday.

Following an inspection, it eventually departed at 06:00 on Tuesday.

There were 230 passengers on board the 31,000 tonne ferry, which can hold up to 1,050 people.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-26636627
Steve in Belfast (suburbia)

Flickr: www.flickr.com/tarbyonline



Re: P&O Fleet Movements Reply #48 on: March 18, 2014, 11:25:48 pm
Yes the current situation on the Dublin - Liverpool route shows up the flaws in the current thinking of ferry operators , there is huge potential for a foot passenger service on that route , it has a city-break appeal to a customer base of nearly 6 million people within walking distance of the ferry terminals (well a short bus trip anyway) , in fact I would imagine that if there was a foot passenger service between Dublin and Liverpool it would gain a very large share of the foot passenger traffic currently using Dublin - Holyhead.

Agree 100% with the potential. It was great when the Seacat was running and then the innovative yet sadly shortlived Irish Sea Express.

Wonder if there is any potential for Jonathan Swift to alternate between serving Liverpool and Holyhead. Irish Ferries already have an office a stone's throw from the landing stage and presumably the Jonathan Swift would be compatible with the landing stage (used by IOMSPC's Manannan).



Re: P&O Fleet Movements Reply #49 on: March 19, 2014, 12:08:20 am
It would be great to see P&O allow foot passengers on their services.

Unfortunately, the days of fast ferries operating the Liverpool to Dublin service is over. In 2005 when Irish Sea Express ended, I wrote them a letter telling them how much I loved travelling with them and how I wished the service would continue, they sent me a lovely letter with a photo of Sea Express 1 leaving Liverpool on her evening sailing to Dublin, such a brilliant photograph!

Since 2005 and the end of ISE, I believe another company should have came in and began operating the service because, it was and is missed and since the closure of the DFDS passenger service to Dublin, the route is crying out to be reinstated.

P&O run a suitable route for freight but not passengers and this really does need to change. European Endeavour is a suitable and her sailing times from Liverpool at 3am with a 11am arrival in Dublin is ideal for passengers who want to arrive in Ireland before the lunchtime rush of traffic. P&O seriously need to look into allowing foot passengers on their Liverpool-Dublin services.



Re: P&O Fleet Movements Reply #50 on: March 19, 2014, 03:12:31 pm
P&O certainly have potential on the route. We tend to use P&O a lot, and I have to say the courteous nature of the crews, reliability, comfort, and quality of food, lower prices, really gives the competition a run for their money. Remarkably back in June last year Norbank carried 79 car passengers on her 9:30 sailing to Dublin, I was on this sailing and I have to say it was a little cramped. The restaurant had to serve and re-open.

Exactly what P&O's plans are for Dublin to Liverpool are, well I'm rather baffled. Norbank and Norbay, though reliable (built in same yard as Isle of Inishmore + free), are 20 years old. So how much longer they will be on the route is debatable. I think, P&O will acquire larger tonnage, much higher freight capacity, and preferably passenger capacity (though not too high) than the 'bay' and 'bank'. Perhaps something like the 2007 built Superfast's. If P&O were to develop the route enough, then the Pride of Rotterdam and Pride of Hull, might be suited to the route.

The logical thing to do is either transfer Norbank or Norbay back to the North Sea, or charter them out, and acquire larger better suited vessels, after all they are operating to capacity on most sailings. They are very nice vessels (I was lucky enough to be taken on the bridge of Norbay!). It's the smart thing to do before ICG and Stena get better equipped.

The other option of course is to sell to Stena, and given Stena's 12 quays at Birkenhead, would make sense. One guy I was talking to reckoned P&O were going to build their own riverside quay and new terminal, or move to the 12 quays, given the locking out costs currently. But then again P&O and Stena have a rather 'punch and judy' relationship, and given the situation on the North Channel, I don't think relations are that good.

Ideally if P&O got the 'Rodin' and 'Berlioz', they could release Pride of Kent and Pride of Canterbury, move them onto the North Channel and really heat things up. They certainly would cause a stir, and perhaps help P&O become the more premier provider on the North Channel. Highlander and Causeway could receive more cabins, have refurbishment and replace Norbank and Norbay.

- on a side note: Toilets on European Endeavour have all been refurbished in 'Pride of Kent / Darwin style', and recliner lounge (would make an ideal club lounge if modernised) and cinema is open.     

   



Re: P&O Fleet Movements Reply #51 on: March 19, 2014, 05:09:29 pm
P&O certainly have potential on the route. We tend to use P&O a lot, and I have to say the courteous nature of the crews, reliability, comfort, and quality of food, lower prices, really gives the competition a run for their money. Remarkably back in June last year Norbank carried 79 car passengers on her 9:30 sailing to Dublin, I was on this sailing and I have to say it was a little cramped. The restaurant had to serve and re-open.

Exactly what P&O's plans are for Dublin to Liverpool are, well I'm rather baffled. Norbank and Norbay, though reliable (built in same yard as Isle of Inishmore + free), are 20 years old. So how much longer they will be on the route is debatable. I think, P&O will acquire larger tonnage, much higher freight capacity, and preferably passenger capacity (though not too high) than the 'bay' and 'bank'. Perhaps something like the 2007 built Superfast's. If P&O were to develop the route enough, then the Pride of Rotterdam and Pride of Hull, might be suited to the route.

The logical thing to do is either transfer Norbank or Norbay back to the North Sea, or charter them out, and acquire larger better suited vessels, after all they are operating to capacity on most sailings. They are very nice vessels (I was lucky enough to be taken on the bridge of Norbay!). It's the smart thing to do before ICG and Stena get better equipped.

The other option of course is to sell to Stena, and given Stena's 12 quays at Birkenhead, would make sense. One guy I was talking to reckoned P&O were going to build their own riverside quay and new terminal, or move to the 12 quays, given the locking out costs currently. But then again P&O and Stena have a rather 'punch and judy' relationship, and given the situation on the North Channel, I don't think relations are that good.

Ideally if P&O got the 'Rodin' and 'Berlioz', they could release Pride of Kent and Pride of Canterbury, move them onto the North Channel and really heat things up. They certainly would cause a stir, and perhaps help P&O become the more premier provider on the North Channel. Highlander and Causeway could receive more cabins, have refurbishment and replace Norbank and Norbay.

- on a side note: Toilets on European Endeavour have all been refurbished in 'Pride of Kent / Darwin style', and recliner lounge (would make an ideal club lounge if modernised) and cinema is open.     

 
There WAS a proposal for P&O to sell to Stena (back when Stena took over the Fleetwood operation) but it was blocked on competition grounds.  Not too sure there would be the availability of berths at 12 quays during the appropriate times either, and the Max ship size there would be lower than at Gladstone iirc (though could possibly be extended?).  Norbay and Norbank have served the route well, do P&O really want the hassle of carrying 100's of passengers every sailing as opposed to mostly unaccompanied traffic? 

Regarding the North channel I don't see anything happening any time soon.  IIRC the max draft at Cairnryan is 6m which might limit their options a bit.  Whats the free height like on the Darwin's as a key feature of both P&O and Stena ship is the ability to carry double trailers - both operators carry a lot of supermarket traffic.  I'm sure Stena would be more than willing to take Highlander and Ambassador of P&O's hands ;)
Steve in Belfast (suburbia)

Flickr: www.flickr.com/tarbyonline



Re: P&O Fleet Movements Reply #52 on: March 19, 2014, 05:44:20 pm
I'm a bit of a P&O fan, but I wonder how much longer can they go on just selling routes to Stena. P&O in my opinion have made some good moves, getting rid of what they probably saw as 'baggage', but following the policy of all the eggs in one basket (i.e. streamlining so much all they have is Dover), is not a good business sense.

I think its a bit of a shame the company is very, very, very conservative, and aren't really investing in Dub-Liv, or Larne. Stena have done wonders for Liverpool to Belfast, and you never know, they might fancy taking on P&O on Dub to Liverpool. P&O really need to do something before they are the underdog, and it takes a bit more than introducing the International Food Court, and Wifi to compete effectively with Stena, especially on the North Channel. It would do the route wonders if they got the Darwins. Just imagine the Express and Darwins, that certainly would be a fine sight. To be honest the Darwins would be better suited to the North Channel than Superfasts. 

Stena have probably done more than P&O in the past five years than P&O have in the past 20 years. The Liverpool to Dublin route as Liam has pointed out, is growing. I'm sure if it was under the Stena flag it would be really developed, but I have to agree with many P&O does lack a Stenability. Its a shame as P&O has great heritage, very committed crews, very reasonable prices, and does have the potential out of all the operators to really compete with Stena in the ferry sector.

Darwins aren't bad for height, they can take trailers on the upper deck, in a good few videos on Youtube there are trailers on the upper deck, and don't forget they use to be just like the Seaway. I think the Darwins are just what P&O Larne need, and P&O Dover need something bigger as they look a bit out of place operating alongside the new Spirit class, and are vessels that mechanically 22 years old suitable for Dover to Calais? DFDS 3d's are technically 14 years younger, and for P&O Dover, and P&O in general to keep the quality and popularity up, new builds will be needed.

P&O might be holding out to see how the whole LNG fuel goes for Brittany Ferries, and then ordering LNG's rather than standard diesel engines (Personally I think this is what ICG are doing).
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 09:01:46 pm by TC »



Re: P&O Fleet Movements Reply #53 on: March 19, 2014, 06:09:31 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3xEw2lJBis
- Norbank 1993 launch, North Sea Ferries & van der Giessen de Noord.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/scottmackey/sets/72157631673828344/
- Norbank 2014 photos - Bridge in detail. 



Re: P&O Fleet Movements Reply #54 on: March 20, 2014, 09:28:04 pm
Technical issues on Larne to Cairnryan mean a revised schedule in place.  The following is from P and O freight:

Quote
Due to technical issues today we are experiencing disruptions on our Scottish services.

Revised schedule for today, and Friday 21st; Ex Larne - 2000 now departing 1930, 2359 now departing 0130, 0730 per schedule, 1030 cancelled. Ex Cairnryan - 2000 now departing 2230, 2359 now departing 2230,0400 now departing 0430, 0730 cancelled, 1030 per schedule
.

I understand this is likely to affect the weekend schedule as well.  Not good timing as Superfast VII is off this weekend as well!
Steve in Belfast (suburbia)

Flickr: www.flickr.com/tarbyonline



Re: P&O Fleet Movements Reply #55 on: March 20, 2014, 10:08:45 pm
Any idea about the nature of the problem. European Causeway was doing 19knots, so I don't think the problem is with her, maybe European Highlander is having issues. Hmmm of all the times to happen its the worst time. P&O Express is in Belfast, and a Superfast off service. I think P&O are planning to limp along. Depending on the nature of the issue, if its small like Stena Europe stern door thing, well it should be sorted.

If its something more serious that requires a trip to dry dock, it might be worthwhile for them sending perhaps the European Seaway to cover (if in one piece!), or if a Dover ship is due for dry docking, send it to cover Highlander that receives repairs, and then the replacement vessel receive dry docking at H&W. It would be interesting to see the suitability of a Dover vessel on route. If some of you can remember the Pride of Rathlin, she served at Dover - Zeebrugge, then Larne. 



Re: P&O Fleet Movements Reply #56 on: March 20, 2014, 10:44:02 pm
Highly unlikely to send a Dover vessel to provide cover, normally Dover vessels require a different docking ramp hence cow catchers on the bows and no stern ramps the loadings on Dublin - Liverpool are excellent and P&O are probably very happy with the returns on investment.



Re: P&O Fleet Movements Reply #57 on: March 20, 2014, 11:20:04 pm
Expect to see Highlander in H&W at the weekend requires dry docking to get the technical issue sorted



Re: P&O Fleet Movements Reply #58 on: March 21, 2014, 01:05:19 am
Yes the problem is with Highlander TC, and it is pretty serious from what I understand.  She could be dry docked all weekend as giftgrub says.

Regarding Cairnryan, I don't think the berth can take a ship too big (I have 170m ish in my head).  The berth at Mackean Quay in Larne can take a max of 170m according to their website, the others are 165m and 160 so anything bigger than Highlander is going to struggle to fit.  I don't know what the Dublin and Liverpool berths are like so can't really comment on the loading arrangements though Norbay and Norbank definitely have their own ramps - not sure about Endeavour though as obviously she was converted to dual deck loading when she was at Dover (I'm almost certain the P&O Dublin linkspan is a standard single loading arrangement, and Endeavour probably retains her ramps from her original design).  Pride of Rathlin and Ailsa did indeed come up from Zeebrugge, though they used the smaller Continental Quay at Larne from memory.  There is also a new linkspan at Cairnryan now, again double decked. 

From what I can gather, starting with Dover and Calais TT/P&O started designing their fleet to be less flexible/more bespoke (which is why Calais and Dover had no internal ramps).  Being a standard design the Free Enterprise class had a lot more flexibility.  Zeebrugge got a new ramp in the 80's too IIRC which allowed double deck loading so removed the need for internal ramps - it depends on what brief Knud E Hansen where given at the time they where designed.  I have done a bit of digging today about the Darwin's and European Super-freighters.   They definitely don't have internal ramps (which the Free Enterprise class did) as they aren't shown on the GA plans on the net.  Perhaps this is why she has lain in Tilbury so long.  The Darwins will also suffer from any lack of flexibility that Seaway has which would rule all of the European Super freighter types out of Dublin-Liverpool if I am right about the berthing arrangements (someone local can correct me if I am wrong).  I suspect Liverpool is also a single tier ramp.

Ultimately I would imagine it would be easier to modify the Mitsubishis than to accommodate the Darwin's on the North Channel given the investment which would be needed just to make them fit, they aren't young vessels either so there would only be a limited payback.  All 3 Mitsubishis are different so there is obviously flexibility in the design.  The Darwins will probably see out their careers on the Dover strait (they would be ideal for anyone brave enough to run to Ostend for example, if P&O where to replace them) before following Dover and Calais to the beach.  Had P&O wanted to expand passenger capacity on Dublin - Liverpool they had the ideal opportunity to snap up the now Stena Allegra (Norman Trader) - she sat in Falmouth for what seemed an eternity and after all was designed for the route!  Certainly it would have been cheaper than investing in a new ramp (the ramp itself in Cairnyan cost about £4M) and the associated changes to infrastructure/port layout, etc.  Likewise to modify the existing ships would be expensive, particularly if the where (as I suspect) designed without such modification in mind.
Steve in Belfast (suburbia)

Flickr: www.flickr.com/tarbyonline



Re: P&O Fleet Movements Reply #59 on: March 23, 2014, 04:37:22 pm

Highlander has remained at H&W today, however Express has moved to Larne.  She isn't scheduled to run until the 31st but would appear to be on the MacKean quay berth used for Cairnryan sailings.  Will keep an eye to see if she sails!

Edit:  Express is on her own berth.  Also, for some reason I posted this and the previous info in the Irish Ferries thread!
Steve in Belfast (suburbia)

Flickr: www.flickr.com/tarbyonline