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Messages - Steven

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Discussion Board / Re: In Depth Ferry Specs
« on: July 03, 2013, 03:48:57 am »
"The ferry" full version is about £20 delivered on amazon ATM but not sure how the super saver delivery works with Ireland.  I dont know whats been cut out of the abbreviated version but personally i thought the full version wasnt as in depth as I would have liked, though still worth the purchase price.  The official stena history (published by stena and shippax) is another good book (so long as you can over look the occasional bit of sweglish).  I keep going back to the drawings at the back of every Stena ferry (including those retained from the Sealink takeover) for size comparison for example, which I have not seen anywhere else.  Its also quite frank about the takeover and just how bad a position it left Stena in (there very nearly wasn't a Stena Line anymore which I didn't know about before).   I received the Bruce Peter Stena history (ferry pubs) the other day but haven't had a chance to read yet - the photos look great tho!

For quick reference Nick Widdows Ferries reference book is great, though I have never bought a current version.  The older versions are on eBay second hand for a fraction of the price and contain largely the same information.  I believe there are a number of similar publications now though.  However the vast majority of information is available on"fakta" (now working again BTW) with the aid of Google translate unless you want to get really specific.  Ferry is more readable and better laid out but fakta has been around longer iirc and tends to have more detail and pics for example.  For deck plans hhv (old site) is the one to go to.

EDIT:  think I'm possibly talking about the same Stena book as gifgrub but can't confirm as the breakwater site won't load for me.

Discussion Board / Re: In Depth Ferry Specs
« on: July 02, 2013, 08:57:52 pm »
looks like a smashing read, next time i have some spare cash i must get this myself
It is a good read and it covers a lot of different ships as well tho IIRC the saints have the largest individual coverage.  I definitely found it a better read than the likes of the Sealink years.  Think my next purchase will be the Knud E Hansen book. 

Discussion Board / Re: In Depth Ferry Specs
« on: July 01, 2013, 11:48:18 pm »
id love to see the collection of books steven, I have a good few here but never enough, would have loved to seen felicity lengthened, does lengthening shorten the life of a ship, I think killian was scrapped before her sisters
Hi Larry

Will have to locate all of them first!  Most of my stuff is Ferry Pubs but have a few by Irish publishers too.  I tend to pick things up on ebay a lot, and even got a Princess Victoria book in Tesco a few months ago lol.  The one book I am really desperate to dig out is Designing Ships for Sealink by rogan and ripley but this has gone missing somewhere along with the vast bulk of my collection.

So far as lengthening goes, I dont think it would affect the life of a ship so long as it is done right (and the lengthening is designed properly with stresses for example recalculated), in the same way a repair after the hull is damaged wont.  How ever Jan Heweliusz style repairs can seriously shorten the lifespan of a vessel obviously, likewise if thinner steel was used on the lengthened section for example then I guess this would also affect the lifespan.  A well maintained lengthened ship is going to last longer than any non-lenthened ship that isnt looked after as well.  I think the aforementioned Rogan and Ripley book might have something in it about Felicity (the book covers some of the ships acquired and modifications made).

Discussion Board / Re: In Depth Ferry Specs
« on: June 30, 2013, 06:01:53 pm »
Some Normandica history and pics throughout her career at the site I previously mentioned (now I can post links)

Discussion Board / Re: In Depth Ferry Specs
« on: June 25, 2013, 08:36:32 pm »
Hi Larry

A nice site for general info and pics is  I started a similar project a number of years ago so may be able to help with any info you are missing, particularly with ex Sealink or Stena ships as that's where most of my interest is.  Another danish site with the first isle of innisfree is  IIRC the AA rated this ship as 2 star but her sister at dover was rated 4 stars.  The book Stena Line - story of a ferry company states the invictas speed as 16.5 knots.  I remember at the time she had problems keeping to the schedule due to her lack of speed but don't know if b and I had similar problems.

Re the Stena Felicity, her initial Sealink refit cost £2M according to "the sealink years" book.  It also states that the negotiations for the charter had taken place over some time with the company actually wanting to purchase outright all along rather than charter.

I have tons of books to refer to if you need any further info, tho some went missing during a move a few years back but they are around here somewhere!  Sport I can't post proper links yet

Discussion Board / Re: Main Engine Power
« on: October 22, 2013, 09:39:57 pm »
Katexpress 1 has 36000 kW from 4 MAN engines whereas Manannan has 28,800 KW Total Power @ 1050 RPM from 4 CAT diesels.  I think the key thing vs the HSS is that they use diesel rather than aviation gas turbines.  I remember reading that the Discovery used more fuel than Stena's 7 conventional North Sea ships put together! Additionally IIRC the HSS1500 class produced the equivalent of 100,000hp - compare that to your average super mini!

Discussion Board / Re: Main Engine Power
« on: October 22, 2013, 08:50:52 pm »
Just for Davy Jones ;)

Irish Ferries power output (main engines)

Ulysees 31,200
Johnathan Swift- 28,000
Isle of Inishmore - 23,040 KW
Isle of Innisfree/Kaitaki 23040
Pride of Bilbao/ SPL Princess Anastasia  23,000 kW
Oscar Wilde 19,800 roughly (26900hk)
St Patrick II 15445
Normandy 15360 kW

Most interesting of all are these figures for Ulysees which show the breakdown of power actually needed (taken from ):

Shaft Output for Service Speed of 22 Knots      22,600 KW
Sea Margin Allowance      3,390 KW
Shaft Alternator Allowance      1,925 KW
Total Output Reqd for a Service Speed of 22 Knots      28,435 KW ( 91% MCR)

And just for comparison as she is similar to the IO Ininshmore, Stena Jutlandica 25920 kW vs IOI 23,040.

Discussion Board / Re: Main Engine Power
« on: October 22, 2013, 08:09:25 pm »
Ok, this is my original intended reply - fingers crossed it works!

I guess Stena have taken into account the cost of the HSS conversions vs the expected remaining life of the vessels and the actual usefulness (with their limited freight capacity and need for dedicated infrastructure reducing flexibility) and decided its not worth the investment. 

Interesting about the Nordica though I note she has 4 engines - 2 x Wärtsilä 18V38 and 2 x Wärtsilä 12V38 which doesn't mean all are in full use all of the time.  However according to this site the European Causeway which is near sister has 4 Wärtsilä main engines producing the best part of 32kW and a further 2 Diahatsu auxiliary engines.  By comparison the Stena Britannica has 4 MAN engines producing just a few kW more.  Viking XPRS has 40,000kW of Wärtsilä main engine power onboard (still well short of the Superfasts) whereas Ullysees has a "mere" 31,200kW from her main engines    However, I am getting the Stena Lagan's power output at double the original post/Stena's figures at 21,600kW which seems more likely and leads me to think the Stena site should read 2 x 10800 kW.

Given the age of the design would the Europe's engines not be far less efficient given the advances in technology frrom the late 70's when she was designed meaning more fuel burned per kW of power produced?  Also, the Europe is designed to sail at 19kts vs the Nordicas 25kts and the Superfasts 27kts- each additional knot of speed requires a greater increase of power than the last one meaning a Nordica sailing at 18 or 19 knots is going to use nowhere near the amount of power she would at full speed.

It perhaps shows the advances in design/better economies of scale of the Visentini class to compare the original Lagan vikings 15,600 kW to the current Stena Lagan's and particularly the Visentini forwarder (2 x 9450 kW at 500 rpm according to NAOS = 18900kW) to the later larger class such as Stena Lagan (2100 lane metres vs 2885 is over a 25% increase in capacity with less than 13% increase in power

Interesting topic you have started here!

Discussion Board / Re: Main Engine Power
« on: October 22, 2013, 07:08:36 pm »
I looked for the Irish Ferries vessels to put up as a comparison, but couldn't find anything on engine power. If anybody has the knowledge please post.
I have some data for Ulysses in the reply I was originally going to post but can't use my WiFi to access the forum to post it (using 3g at the moment).  Will try rig the laptop up to the phone to post.  The figures given for the Lagan in the op need to be doubled by the way.  The stena site has a typo on it and the power given is per engine.  Either the the Nordica has a very inefficient hull profile or is massively overpowered IMO.

Discussion Board / Re: thoughts on fishguard to dublin-belfast service
« on: September 23, 2013, 01:57:27 am »
Fishguard to Belfast would be a definite non-starter.  Even if anyone actually wanted to travel from Belfast to Fishguard it would be much quicker to drive to Dublin, get the ferry to Holyhead and drive down to Fishguard as such a crossing would take the best part of a day in each direction (using the Belfast - Liverpool crossing time as a guide).  As for Fishguard to Dublin I'm not sure there would be any demand for such a service - any traffic that would use such a service is probably already pretty well catered for by the existing services.

Discussion Board / Re: Rosslare Harbour History In Pictures
« on: July 07, 2013, 01:28:18 pm »
Loving the pics.  Must have taken you ages! 

Discussion Board / Re: Stena Lagan/Mersey
« on: July 03, 2013, 04:39:36 am »
Re-reading your voyage report reminded me of some of the hates of the service as it was - particularly the herding concept!  It also reminded me just how noisy the part of the ship where the cinema is get when underway - alas this is unchanged and it really is a case of not being able to carry out a conversation.  Don't know if its as bad in the cinema itself tho but was surprised this had not been rectified by Stena. Thankfully the restaurant is a lot more civil now even if the area previously used by passengers and truckers is reserved just for truckers these days.  I think I remember reading somewhere Stena had reduced the passenger certificate after the refit - even though more cars boarded our sailings than I have noticed before the shared area between eating and the bar never got stretched (half of this area tended to be closed off in the Norse merchant/Norfolk line days).

Discussion Board / Re: Stena Lagan/Mersey
« on: July 02, 2013, 08:33:19 pm »

I was on both ships a couple of weeks ago and they are now definitely Stena ferries.  In fact my mother thought they had replaced the ships as we have travelled numerous times on the route but this was the first time with Stena, and although the layout is similar the refurbishment has been extensive (it was much needed IMHO).  To be honest I think I prefer them to the Superfasts, the facilities aren't as extensive but there is definitely less hustle and bustle about the route and you have plenty of time to enjoy the rest and have a pint, particularly if like myself you have just driven a number of hours across England on the way home - can't compare to Dublin as never sailed from there but its great to know when you get off the boat on the way home you only have 20 mins and you are at your doorstep (rather than dreading it most of the holiday).  The food was among the best I have had anywhere never mind on a ferry and it was served on a real plate with real cutlery.  From a cost point of view we worked out it was cheaper to go via Birkenhead than go Cairnryan and pay for petrol, food, etc for the drive.

Would definitely agree with the advice to get the night boat as not much to do for kids (is there ever these days tho) and it is a long crossing plus you board about an hour before departure.  The ships can be a bit noisy from vibration, particularly towards the rear of the passenger areas but this is probably the case with all ferries these days.  The standard 4 berth cabins are quite compact but they do a larger family cabin for not much more IIRC if you want more than the minimum amount of space.  You order food at the met bar and it gets brought out to you (appeared to be cooked to order) - on the Mersey we collected it from the area where the condiments where kept but on the Lagan it was brought to the table but this could just be different crews ways of working.  The crew really could not do enough for us BTW and seemed to really care about their ships and passengers where as previously this didn't seem to be the case.  From Birkenhead its 15 minutes or so to the motorway network and the early morning arrival means you are well on your way before the traffic starts to build up.  I have relatives that previously travelled through Dublin but now go Belfast - Birkenhead as it is just so much less hassle.

Personally we travel on the evening before the "holiday" (no loading cars at 4 in the morning) which means you have the majority of a full day at your designation (we would be travelling to Leeds or Northamptonshire) rather than spending the majority of your first day travelling.  In fact I have on some ocassions came home from work, loaded the car and got on the ferry meaning I started my holidays on holiday rather than driving to the boat.

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